infinitelord1 Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:15 PM']fidei, dont u think that given what causes homosexuality and given the free-will that we do have a choice? Like others have said........you cant just choose to not feel that way........you have to make the choices to get there. Also, jesus says in the bible that through god there are infinite possibliities. Also, dont u think that through free will we have the choice to feel a certain way? (remember you cant just change over night unless of course a miracle happened). [right][snapback]633783[/snapback][/right] [/quote] maybe you can be healed completely.........but the devil may always hold his ground with an issue like this too........maybe the person may still feel an SSA yet be able to have a strong loving heterosexual relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:02 PM']If you have SSA, you have to assume the single life unless some "healing" comes to fix it. If you are gay, you are not going to get married unless healed. You will definatly not become a priest unless you fully overcome it (and i mean fully and completely, which only a miracle can cause.) There are no other choices besides the single life (in service to the church as a lay person, of course). You have a problem with celebacy, but there are no other choices. [right][snapback]633769[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think there's a misunderstanding here. Infinitelord's talking about a "hetero" relationship, not homosexual., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 NARTH's statistics show that some people that turn away from homosexuality can be rid of the ssa and actually develope normal heterosexual attraction, while some can be rid of the ssa but not develope heterosexual attraction, and some never get rid of the ssa at all. it's about 33% for each of those three categories. certain factors determine what category you'd fit under, such as how deep you're into the homosexual lifestyle and how deep your wounds are et cetera. anyway, don't go head-to-head against homosexuality, fighting against homosexuality; you have to work on all the issues surrounding it and that will help you a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 (edited) [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 6 2005, 04:13 PM']RESPONSE: (1) That which occurs in nature is natural by definition. (2) "It is due to this that the natural left-handers in society have sometimes been treated differently, as outcasts or evil people. In previous times, probably due to Satan being a left-hander, they were said to have been 'doing the devil's work'. It is therefore not surprising that so many left-handed people have been forced to write and eat with their right hand. Changing a person's handedness forces them to use a different brain hemisphere, and often causes stuttering or other learning difficulties." Sorry about your being left-handed. We'll all pray for you, and hope that you overcome this UNNATURAL affliction! [right][snapback]633583[/snapback][/right] [/quote] 1. By that definition, all things that occur in the material world are natural, even things that contradict natural laws. Sounds fishy. 2. Satan doesn't have a body. Therefore, he cannot be left or right-handed. 3. Thanks for praying for me! I can use all the help I can get. Edited July 7, 2005 by scardella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='scardella' date='Jul 7 2005, 09:14 AM']1. By that definition, all things that occur in the material world are natural, even things that contradict natural laws. Sounds fishy. 2. Satan doesn't have a body. Therefore, he cannot be left or right-handed. 3. Thanks for praying for me! I can use all the help I can get. [right][snapback]634182[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: 1. No. Your argument is in error. Not everything that occurs in the material world can be taken to be natural. But that which occurs by nature - ie differing sexual orientations among mammals -would be natural. 2. Ol' Nick can assume whatever form he wants! I just wish he hadn't given snakes a bad name in Genesis. 3. Maybe you can find a therapist who can convert you to right handedness. Aloysius may know one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 As I previously noted, human sexual orientation occurs along a spectrum from strongly heterosexual to strongly homosexual. I have no doubt that some homosexuals who are toward the center of the spectrum can be "converted" to heterosexuality; as also some who are heterosexual can be converted to homosexuality. Of course, how lasting this conversion will be is unknown. Also unknown is if any bisexual orientation develops among the "converted." Perhaps, if the individual is satisfied with his sexual orientation, we just ought to leave well enough alone. LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 (edited) [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 7 2005, 10:12 AM']RESPONSE: 1. No. Your argument is in error. Not everything that occurs in the material world can be taken to be natural. But that which occurs by nature - ie differing sexual orientations among mammals -would be natural. 2. Ol' Nick can assume whatever form he wants! I just wish he hadn't given snakes a bad name in Genesis. 3. Maybe you can find a therapist who can convert you to right handedness. Aloysius may know one. [right][snapback]634252[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Btw, part of the stigma against lefties comes from when people didn't have toilet paper or soap and had to wipe consistently with one hand and eat with the other so that they didn't get disease from fecal matter. Therefore, it was also bad to use that hand in social situations too. Ooh, we're way off topic! Edited July 7, 2005 by scardella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:15 PM']fidei, dont u think that given what causes homosexuality and given the free-will that we do have a choice? Like others have said........you cant just choose to not feel that way........you have to make the choices to get there. Also, jesus says in the bible that through god there are infinite possibliities. Also, dont u think that through free will we have the choice to feel a certain way? (remember you cant just change over night unless of course a miracle happened). [right][snapback]633783[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think you are trying to mix free will into places it does not belong. You cannot say the because you did not choose SSA, that God does not exist. Outside forces - i.e. nature - affects us as well. You are assuming that every single factor of our lives we can choose, and we cannot. God is God, and he can do as he feels. Everything he does, it is perfect, the most perfect choice out of all, because there are no other choices with God, everything he does is the only thing he could do. eh yah confusing.. ignore that. In english, that means if God "made you gay", then that is how it is, unless in his plan, he had set to "heal" you. He may not have directly caused you to be that way, but that is not to say that he didnt will it. He doesnt will you to sin, but he may will you to have a certain feeling. And feelings do not, for the most part, have anything to do with free will, per se. You could do things to cause feelings, but the feelings themselves are not because you willed them. You can not just willfully cause yourself to be happy by telling youself "be happy". So SSA does not necesarily have anything to do with free will. hmm yah. feel free to pick at what i just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 7 2005, 10:51 AM']I think you are trying to mix free will into places it does not belong. You cannot say the because you did not choose SSA, that God does not exist. Outside forces - i.e. nature - affects us as well. You are assuming that every single factor of our lives we can choose, and we cannot. God is God, and he can do as he feels. Everything he does, it is perfect, the most perfect choice out of all, because there are no other choices with God, everything he does is the only thing he could do. eh yah confusing.. ignore that. In english, that means if God "made you gay", then that is how it is, unless in his plan, he had set to "heal" you. He may not have directly caused you to be that way, but that is not to say that he didnt will it. He doesnt will you to sin, but he may will you to have a certain feeling. And feelings do not, for the most part, have anything to do with free will, per se. You could do things to cause feelings, but the feelings themselves are not because you willed them. You can not just willfully cause yourself to be happy by telling youself "be happy". So SSA does not necesarily have anything to do with free will. hmm yah. feel free to pick at what i just said. [right][snapback]634342[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Modern day psychology teaches that feelings come from thoughts......whether we realize it or not. Do we have the free will to choose what we think? That is the question. Psychology also teaches that we can change the way we think........which would also change the way we feel........maybe hot stuff could back me up on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 7 2005, 06:53 PM']Modern day psychology teaches that feelings come from thoughts......whether we realize it or not. Do we have the free will to choose what we think? That is the question. Psychology also teaches that we can change the way we think........which would also change the way we feel........maybe hot stuff could back me up on this one. [right][snapback]634938[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, thoughs cause feelings, but what thought causes homosexuality or hetrosexuality? Tell me that one. You said yourself that you dont want to be homosexual, so why dont you just think yourself out of it? You cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 7 2005, 07:20 PM']Yes, thoughs cause feelings, but what thought causes homosexuality or hetrosexuality? Tell me that one. You said yourself that you dont want to be homosexual, so why dont you just think yourself out of it? You cant. [right][snapback]634957[/snapback][/right] [/quote] maybe part of the reason why i havent been getting homosexual feelings lately is because i did. As i learned more about the issue and how it is wrong......i started to tell myself that i wasnt created that way, and i had hope that god would heal me and help me to find love or feelings for a girl (to prove that i wasnt gay). I think in order to change and have feelings for the opposite sex you have to want to. I mean really want to. Fortunatly for me.......i had a taste of what it was like to have feelings for a girl. I could compare the 2. For others it may not be so easy. There issues may be more engraved in their minds than mine. You see i didnt want to be gay........i wouldnt accept it. When i started to learn about god i learned that i didnt have to be that way. And if god intended for man to be heterosexual then it was possible for me to be heterosexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 (edited) [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 7 2005, 08:22 PM']maybe part of the reason why i havent been getting homosexual feelings lately is because i did. As i learned more about the issue and how it is wrong......i started to tell myself that i wasnt created that way, and i had hope that god would heal me and help me to find love or feelings for a girl (to prove that i wasnt gay). I think in order to change and have feelings for the opposite sex you have to want to. I mean really want to. Fortunatly for me.......i had a taste of what it was like to have feelings for a girl. I could compare the 2. For others it may not be so easy. There issues may be more engraved in their minds than mine. You see i didnt want to be gay........i wouldnt accept it. When i started to learn about god i learned that i didnt have to be that way. And if god intended for man to be heterosexual then it was possible for me to be heterosexual. [right][snapback]635028[/snapback][/right] [/quote] and there are hundreds in the houston area who testify to this......if u would like check out Live Hope Ministries website. They have some interesting things to say about the issue. Dont believe them? Well, i do. And as far as god intending for people to have homosexual feelings goes.......i dont believe that at all........if god wanted someone to end up living a celebate life then i believe it would be more logical for god to intend them to be asexual. Of course, we will never know. I think that u are putting limitations on people. I dont believe that u should because it says in the bible that anything is possible through god. Am I wrong? Edited July 8, 2005 by infinitelord1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 7 2005, 08:25 PM']and there are hundreds in the houston area who testify to this......if u would like check out Live Hope Ministries website. They have some interesting things to say about the issue. Dont believe them? Well, i do. And as far as god intending for people to have homosexual feelings goes.......i dont believe that at all........if god wanted someone to end up living a celebate life then i believe it would be more logical for god to intend them to be asexual. Of course, we will never know. I think that u are putting limitations on people. I dont believe that u should because it says in the bible that anything is possible through god. Am I wrong? [right][snapback]635035[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I dont disbelieve what you are saying, but thought alone cannot change anything. Prayer maybe, but not just thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 and by the way......i stole ur name and used it as my character's name on diablo II: lord of destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 7 2005, 08:25 PM']and there are hundreds in the houston area who testify to this......if u would like check out Live Hope Ministries website. They have some interesting things to say about the issue. Dont believe them? Well, i do. And as far as god intending for people to have homosexual feelings goes.......i dont believe that at all........if god wanted someone to end up living a celebate life then i believe it would be more logical for god to intend them to be asexual. Of course, we will never know. I think that u are putting limitations on people. I dont believe that u should because it says in the bible that anything is possible through god. Am I wrong? [right][snapback]635035[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I find it funny that you continue to say that "we dont know anything with God" then say that you dont believe God could will you to have homosexual feelings. As you know, or maybe you dont, struggle is part of the whole christian experience, and obviously SSA provides much struggle and suffering. Remember - just because you dont like celebacy doesnt mean that God doesnt will you or some other person to live a celebate life because of SSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now