homosexual attraction

[LittleLes]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 6 2005, 10:26 AM']Brown eyes are not a disorder, SSA is.
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RESPONSE:

Only to those who hold such a view. I don't think you'll find physicians, psychiatrists, or psychologists making that claim in this day and age.

Sexual orientation develops along a spectrum. A certain number of men and women become sexually oriented to their own gender. This happens in the animal kingdom as well.

At one point it was thought that being left handed rather than right handed was a disorder. Same thing though.

That's that nature of the human species. There is no disorder involved.

[track2004]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 6 2005, 11:36 AM']RESPONSE:

Only to those who hold such a view. I don't think you'll find physicians, psychiatrists, or psychologists making that claim in this day and age.

Sexual orientation develops along a spectrum. A certain number of men and women become sexually oriented to their own gender. This happens in the animal kingdom as well.

At one point it was thought that being left handed rather than right handed was a disorder. Same thing though.

That's that nature of the human species. There is no disorder involved.
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I personally don't think it is something to be fixed so much as a 'Okay, I'm gay, now what should I do about it? Should I find a monogamous relationship? Should I stay celebant forever? Should I play the field?' Homosexuality happens, no one is really debating that, it's mostly just what people should do about being homosexual.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 6 2005, 01:36 PM']RESPONSE:

Only to those who hold such a view. I don't think you'll find physicians, psychiatrists, or psychologists making that claim in this day and age.

Sexual orientation develops along a spectrum. A certain number of men and women become sexually oriented to their own gender. This happens in the animal kingdom as well.

At one point it was thought that being left handed rather than right handed was a disorder. Same thing though.

That's that nature of the human species. There is no disorder involved.
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Orientation to the same sex is a disorder, the natural God-given order is female-male.

[Jaime]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 6 2005, 12:12 PM']Orientation to the same sex is a disorder, the natural God-given order is female-male.
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BTW thank God there isn't a third gender. I'm pretty sure if women had a second choice, a lot more men would be looking towards the priesthood.

[track2004]

As a related question...

Do you think the people who are healed were bisexual in some degree and found someone of the opposite sex to love or do you think that all the homosexual desires 'vanished' (or any other possibility for the situation)?

[scardella]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 6 2005, 11:36 AM']RESPONSE:

Only to those who hold such a view. I don't think you'll find physicians, psychiatrists, or psychologists making that claim in this day and age.[/quote]

Incorrect.

[quote]That's that nature of the human species. There is no disorder involved.
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Actually, the nature of the human species is fallen, so disorder is involved

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jul 5 2005, 08:13 PM']what exactly is focus on the family?
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focus ont he family is a pretty dynamic prot. organization, they publish books, give marriage conferences-that sorta thing........i mentioned them because they are very much on the forefront of helping homosexuals...they have alot of that kindof ministry...

[LittleLes]

[quote name='scardella' date='Jul 6 2005, 12:39 PM']Incorrect.
Actually, the nature of the human species is fallen, so disorder is involved
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RESPONSE:

No. Your "fallen nature" is presupposing a "fall." That may be so in your belief system if based on a literal interpretation of Genesis.

The various human sexual orientations are natural, much like left handedness or right handness. Do you want to claim that left handness resulted from fallen human nature, too?

As Travis Tamerius wrote in Grace Notes (Aug 96):

" I am a Christian. But there is something else you must know about me. I am a left-handed Christian. Being a left-handed Christian makes me a minority easily marginalized within this community of believers by right-handers wanting to assert their dominance. It accounts for my feelings of spiritual inadequacy, my difficulties in relating to a right-handed god, and my lack of discipline in reading the Bible. If you don't understand what I am talking about, realize that you can't understand - it's a left-hander's thing. "

He could have been writing about sexual orientation instead.

[scardella]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 6 2005, 01:10 PM']RESPONSE:

No. Your "fallen nature" is presupposing a "fall."  That may be  so in your belief system if based on a literal interpretation of Genesis.

The various human sexual orientations are natural, much like left handedness or right handness. Do you want to claim that left handness resulted from fallen human nature, too?

As Travis Tamerius wrote in Grace Notes (Aug 96):

" I am a Christian. But there is something else you must know about me. I am a left-handed Christian. Being a left-handed Christian makes me a minority easily marginalized within this community of believers by right-handers wanting to assert their dominance. It accounts for my feelings of spiritual inadequacy, my difficulties in relating to a right-handed god, and my lack of discipline in reading the Bible. If you don't understand what I am talking about, realize that you can't understand - it's a left-hander's thing. "

He could have been writing about sexual orientation instead.
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Yeah, I'm presupposing a fall, but that doesn't require a literal interpretation of Genesis. To disregard the fall is to be blind to the world's evils. "Various" sexual orientations are not natural, sorry.

Hey, I'm left handed myself, so I suppose I can answer that from experience. Last I checked, there's nothing in the bible or Church teaching that say being left-handed is bad. However, it is tougher to be left-handed. My job requires me to work on other people's computers, so I've had to train myself to be able to use right handed setups. In other areas, i've had challenges with having baseball gloves, golf clubs, writing, etc. It [b]is[/b] tougher to be left-handed, as it is to have a SSA. That doesn't mean any of us have any right to go against God's law. It's the same for people w/ genetic disorders or lacking limbs or have predispositions to be alcoholic, violent, etc. It doesn't exempt them from God's law.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 6 2005, 12:36 PM']RESPONSE:

Only to those who hold such a view. I don't think you'll find physicians, psychiatrists, or psychologists making that claim in this day and age.

Sexual orientation develops along a spectrum. A certain number of men and women become sexually oriented to their own gender. This happens in the animal kingdom as well.

At one point it was thought that being left handed rather than right handed was a disorder. Same thing though.

That's that nature of the human species. There is no disorder involved.
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actually, even the man who was influential in taking homosexuality off of the list of psychological disorders for the APA has recently come to the conclusion that reparative therapy is good when done correctly, and changed his mind about the nature of homosexuality. there is a growing movement of those who actually study the idea objectively that says it is a disorder; those who conform to the prejudice and PC of the times refuse to consider the possibility.

[LittleLes]

[quote name='scardella' date='Jul 6 2005, 03:27 PM']Yeah, I'm presupposing a fall, but that doesn't require a literal interpretation of Genesis.  To disregard the fall is to be blind to the world's evils.  "Various" sexual orientations are not natural, sorry. 

Hey, I'm left handed myself, so I suppose I can answer that from experience.  Last I checked, there's nothing in the bible or Church teaching that say being left-handed is bad.    However, it is tougher to be left-handed.  My job requires me to work on other people's computers, so I've had to train myself to be able to use right handed setups.  In other areas, i've had challenges with having baseball gloves, golf clubs, writing, etc.  It [b]is[/b] tougher to be left-handed, as it is to have a SSA.  That doesn't mean any of us have any right to go against God's law.  It's the same for people w/ genetic disorders or lacking limbs or have predispositions to be alcoholic, violent, etc.  It doesn't exempt them from God's law.
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RESPONSE:

(1) That which occurs in nature is natural by definition.

(2) "It is due to this that the natural left-handers in society have sometimes been treated differently, as outcasts or evil people. In previous times, probably due to Satan being a left-hander, they were said to have been 'doing the devil's work'. It is therefore not surprising that so many left-handed people have been forced to write and eat with their right hand. Changing a person's handedness forces them to use a different brain hemisphere, and often causes stuttering or other learning difficulties."

Sorry about your being left-handed. We'll all pray for you, and hope that you overcome this UNNATURAL affliction!

[LittleLes]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 6 2005, 03:39 PM']actually, even the man who was influential in taking homosexuality off of the list of psychological disorders for the APA has recently come to the conclusion that reparative therapy is good when done correctly, and changed his mind about the nature of homosexuality.  there is a growing movement of those who actually study the idea objectively that says it is a disorder; those who conform to the prejudice and PC of the times refuse to consider the possibility.
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RESPONSE:

Please provide evidence for your assertion.

[Aloysius]

I was referring to Dr. Robert Spitzer, the doctor who originally convinced the APA to change its stance on homosexuality in 1973.

He came out in 2003 after interviewing over 200 people who had been treated by psychologists. He originally had the APA change becuase he was convinced that it was not mentally unhealthy and thus shouldn't be treated, and that it cannot be treated. That was due to studies reported to him at the time. Then he underwent his own intensive study recently, saying he went into it "initially skeptical" but found that reparative therapy does work well. Here are some quotes from his study:

[quote]"For the participants in our study, there was no evidence of harm"

"Mental health professionals should stop moving in the direction of banning therapy that has as its goal a change in sexual orientation"

"Many patients can make a rational choice toward developing their heterosexual potential and minimizing their homosexual attractions." [/quote]

I have met a few psychologists in person who have done extensive study, especially analyzing the methodology used in those "studies" that supposedly prove homosexuality to be genetic or whatever, there is a lot of faulty techniques used and they are unable to be replicated with the same results (for example, the one where they disected the brains of a homosexual and a strait person and declared that there were differences; it's been attempted but never with the same results so it's erroneous)

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 5 2005, 03:19 AM']Furthermore, I believe that it does not necessarily call people to a life of celebacy.[right][snapback]631970[/snapback][/right]
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If you have SSA, you have to assume the single life unless some "healing" comes to fix it. If you are gay, you are not going to get married unless healed. You will definatly not become a priest unless you fully overcome it (and i mean fully and completely, which only a miracle can cause.) There are no other choices besides the single life (in service to the church as a lay person, of course).

You have a problem with celebacy, but there are no other choices.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:02 PM']If you have SSA, you have to assume the single life unless some "healing" comes to fix it. If you are gay, you are not going to get married unless healed. You will definatly not become a priest unless you fully overcome it (and i mean fully and completely, which only a miracle can cause.) There are no other choices besides the single life (in service to the church as a lay person, of course).

You have a problem with celebacy, but there are no other choices.
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fidei,

dont u think that given what causes homosexuality and given the free-will that we do have a choice? Like others have said........you cant just choose to not feel that way........you have to make the choices to get there. Also, jesus says in the bible that through god there are infinite possibliities. Also, dont u think that through free will we have the choice to feel a certain way? (remember you cant just change over night unless of course a miracle happened).