Going to SSPX Masses

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 3 2005, 01:14 AM']i understand

like i said, there are pitfalls w/ both practices. both forms of reception require prudence.
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Luckily in the Byzantine Church communion is received on a golden spoon.

[phatcatholic]

oh yea? does everyone use the same spoon?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 3 2005, 02:13 AM']oh yea? does everyone use the same spoon?
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Yes, the consecrated leavened bread (cut into cubes) is put into the chalice of consecrated wine, and the priest then distributes communion from a golden spoon.

When receiving holy communion the communicant does not touch his lips to the spoon; instead, he approaches the priest with his arms crossed over his chest, and opens his mouth while leaning his head back slightly, and then the priest drops the consecrated elements into the communicants mouth.

The communicant then move to the side and makes a lesser metania (bows) to the altar behind the iconostasis, while crossing himself.

[phatcatholic]

the dropping into the mouth works well? it seems just as hazardous as the latin rite practice. is the cube soaked in wine? if so, could some of the wine drip from the cube or the spoon before it enters your mouth?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 3 2005, 03:36 AM']the dropping into the mouth works well? [. . .]
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Its worked beautifully for more than a thousand years. Also, the priest alone touches the sacred elements and so there is really no chance of accidental profanation by the loss of particles of the consecrated bread.

[phatcatholic]

you didn't answer my last two questions......

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 3 2005, 03:36 AM']the dropping into the mouth works well?
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The priest doesn't hold the spoon inches above a person's mouth, rather the spoon enters the open mouth and the priest turns the spoon dropping the consecrated elements in.

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 3 2005, 03:36 AM'] it seems just as hazardous as the latin rite practice. is the cube soaked in wine?
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It's not hazardous at all, and as I said it has been done this way for more than a thousand years. The point of the spoon is to make it so that no one is actually constantly touching the elements, because that is what will actually lead to profanation, since there is always a degree of moisture on human skin and particles of the consecrated elements will inevitably adhere to the hand. The modern Latin custom practically insures that profanation will occur.

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 3 2005, 03:36 AM']if so, could some of the wine drip from the cube or the spoon before it enters your mouth?
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There is a cloth that is held by the altar server to protect against that eventuality. Plus the priest holds a small plate like device which is semi-attached to the chalice, so that the spoon is never really over open space.

[phatcatholic]

sometimes i get the impression that you look down on the latin rite, like you generally hide your real feelings towards it.......

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 3 2005, 05:57 AM']sometimes i get the impression that you look down on the latin rite, like you generally hide your real feelings towards it.......
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I apologize if that is how it appears.

I will admit that I am opposed to some of the modern indults that have been given in the Latin Rite, because the motivation behind many of them, in my opinion, is pastorally and theologically questionable.

When I attend Mass at Latin Churches I receive communion on the tongue.

[Guest JeffCR07]

phat, there is a difference between looking down on certain practices and looking down on the Latin Rite as a whole.

I think Apotheoun would gladly admit that the Latin Rite has the potentiality to be as beautiful and as dignified as any of the other Rites in the Church - it is simply his observation that certain practices marr that beauty.

I would agree. Personally, I would love to see the mass said [i]ad orientem[/i], with gregorian chant, and for everyone who is physically able to receive the Blessed Sacrament on their knees and on the tongue.

This is not because I "look down" on the Latin Rite - I [i]love[/i] the Latin Rite, and I could never be anywhere else. I simply recognize that these practices are more conducive to an orthodox catholic faith than the practices currently in place.

[Dave]

I think we've really drifted off-topic here.

[Aloysius]

I often feel ashamed of the direction the Latin Rite has taken compared to the Eastern Rites who have retained so many more beautiful traditions, so I can understand if Apotheoun does look somewhat down upon some of our practices. we've gutted alot of stuff, gone to skeleton mode in terms of ritual and practice, and started letting more and more things into the liturgy that used to be unthinkable. the other rites currently have liturgies which are in far less chaos than the modern latin rite.

reception on the tongue is not awkward at all when the communicant is kneeling at a communion rail. definitely not "hazardous"; it becomes hazardous only among priests who are not used to it giving it to people of all different heights who are standing to receive <just an observation>

anyway, it is absurd to say you go to SSPX mass because of crumbs from reception in the hand. while the "crumb theory" as it was called earlier is substantiated by a simulation that was done with an unconsecrated host and black lights to see all the small particals; you are not forced to receive on the hand anywhere; you're not even forced to receive while standing if you have the courage to make everyone look down on you for breaking the flow of their speedy communion line. communion in the hand is an American indult, a few other countries if I'm not mistaken... but go most anywhere in the world where there is real devout Catholic faith and they don't distribute to the hand.

[cmotherofpirl]

Since the Church is governed by the Holy Spirit, I certainly would never say I am ashamed at any rite. I am disturbed by abuses that can occur anywhere in the Church.

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 3 2005, 08:48 PM']I often feel ashamed of the direction the Latin Rite has taken compared to the Eastern Rites who have retained so many more beautiful traditions, so I can understand if Apotheoun does look somewhat down upon some of our practices.  we've gutted alot of stuff, gone to skeleton mode in terms of ritual and practice, and started letting more and more things into the liturgy that used to be unthinkable.  the other rites currently have liturgies which are in far less chaos than the modern latin rite.

reception on the tongue is not awkward at all when the communicant is kneeling at a communion rail.  definitely not "hazardous"; it becomes hazardous only among priests who are not used to it giving it to people of all different heights who are standing to receive <just an observation>

anyway, it is absurd to say you go to SSPX mass because of crumbs from reception in the hand.  while the "crumb theory" as it was called earlier is substantiated by a simulation that was done with an unconsecrated host and black lights to see all the small particals; you are not forced to receive on the hand anywhere; you're not even forced to receive while standing if you have the courage to make everyone look down on you for breaking the flow of their speedy communion line.  communion in the hand is an American indult, a few other countries if I'm not mistaken... but go most anywhere in the world where there is real devout Catholic faith and they don't distribute to the hand.
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[Aloysius]

okay... more at the abuses I suppose. ashamed may have been too strong a word... but comparative to other rites, it seems like the mighty latin rite has fallen pretty low... and any rite, even the latin rite, could be wrong in adding or taking away certain rituals. that's not governed by the Holy Spirit, that's governed by the Western Patriarch (who just happens to also be the Pope)

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Dave' date='Jul 3 2005, 06:22 PM']I think we've really drifted off-topic here. 
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You're tellin' me. I wanna know more about SSPX and their masses and all that fun stuff.