Going to SSPX Masses

[Dave]

In Pope John Paul II's decree Ecclesia Dei Adflicta, where he allows indults for the Tridentine Mass to be said if people ask for it, he exhorts Catholics to avoid SSPX Masses unless physical or moral impossibilities prevent them from getting to a Mass in union with Rome. As a lot of you know, I attend an indult Tridentine Mass parish staffed by the FSSP. Well, I have a friend there (a former PMer, actually -- the key word is "former") who claims that if he couldn't attend an indult Mass he'd attend an SSPX Mass rather than a Novus Ordo Mass because of what he claims is a moral impossibility. His reason? He says that in Novus Ordo Masses, since so many people choose to receive in the hand, there's a real possibility that tiny particles from the Hosts are dropping, and he doesn't want to step on Jesus. While I can sympathize with that, I don't feel that's a valid reason to attend an SSPX Mass. I mean, shouldn't the Church decide what constitutes a moral necessity rather than us? Thoughts?

[Guest Eremite]

Would he have skipped the last supper for the same reason? It's not like Jesus was standing there with a paten.

However, patens are still required, as John Paul II makes clear in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

[curtins]

wait patens are the little things they hold under Communion to keep from falling right?

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='curtins' date='Jul 2 2005, 06:03 PM']wait patens are the little things they hold under Communion to keep from falling right?
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no, its the dish that the priest draws from when he gives you communion.

[phatcatholic]

btw, where does this crumb theory come from? the wafer is hard and crisp, its not crumbly nor does it fall apart. i've never had crumbs left in my hand a day in my life, so i'm never quite sure about this worry of his.

[Dave]

Well, he says he sees small particles in the paten all the time. So, his reasoning goes, it must mean that when people receive in the hand where there are no patens used then Host particles must get scattered everywhere.

[cmotherofpirl]

its a non-issue, I have never seen a crumb in my life.
Sounds like an excuse not a valid reason.

[Guest Eremite]

[quote]no, its the dish that the priest draws from when he gives you communion.[/quote]

Isn't the plate that is held under the lay faithful's chins also called a paten? John Paul II just calls it the "communion plate":

[quote]The Communion-plate for the Communion of the faithful should be retained, so as to avoid the danger of the sacred host or some fragment of it falling.

--Redemptionis Sacramentum, #93[/quote]

I don't know why I thought it was called a paten...

I have seen Father Echert, from EWTN, say that he almost always has particles on the "communion-plate". This is why the Holy Father was insistent that it be used.

[Technicoid]

I found crumbs in my hand, so it can happen. You just need to be careful. Frankly, a paten won't solve that problem.

[phatcatholic]

eremite.............i'm not sure what that plate is called.

as for the crumb issue, crumbs in the dish that the priest draws from does not translate into crumbs in the hands of the faithful. if you do get crumbs in your hand, then you just have to consume them as well. the tongue is not meant to be used to take food from people, so there are pitfalls w/ both practices. both forms of reception require prudence.

[Apotheoun]

While abuses and irreverence during the Divine Liturgy can be discouraging, one must not underestimate the importance of attending a liturgy that is in full communion with the successor of St. Peter.

I say this as a Byzantine Catholic, because sometimes I have to attend Divine Liturgy at Latin Churches (i.e., when there is no Eastern Catholic Church nearby), and although I do not feel fully at home in Latin liturgies any longer, I do not go to Eastern Orthodox services (even though there is an Eastern Orthodox parish 8 minutes from my house), because they are not in communion with Rome.

Catholics, both Western and Eastern, must not take lightly the gift of the Papacy, because it is a particular gift of grace that has been preserved only by the Catholic Church. Catholics must not fall into the habitual practice of going to liturgies that are not in full communion with Rome, because that is the sure road to schism.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Jul 2 2005, 10:41 PM']I don't know why I thought it was called a paten...
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You probably called it that, because it really is a paten. The main difference is that the communion-plate often has a long handle in order to make it easier for the server to hold it under a person's chin while receiving communion.

A communion-plate really becomes nonsensical when communion is given in the hand, because there is no way it can prevent particles of the host from adhering to a person's hand.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 2 2005, 09:25 PM']btw, where does this crumb theory come from? the wafer is hard and crisp, its not crumbly nor does it fall apart. i've never had crumbs left in my hand a day in my life, so i'm never quite sure about this worry of his.
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The priest does break the large host into pieces and these particles often stick to the smaller hosts. Moreover, the smaller hosts themselves can have small particles flake off of them while they are in the ciborium. These small particles can stick to a person's hand when he receives communion that way, and then the communicant may simply brush the particles away unknowingly after consuming the host, thus profaning the blessed sacrament.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jul 2 2005, 11:34 PM']eremite.............i'm not sure what that plate is called.

as for the crumb issue, crumbs in the dish that the priest draws from does not translate into crumbs in the hands of the faithful. if you do get crumbs in your hand, then you just have to consume them as well. the tongue is not meant to be used to take food from people, so there are pitfalls w/ both practices. both forms of reception require prudence.
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The smaller the number of people handling the blessed sacrament the better, because it lessens the chance of profanation.

One other note, the particles may not be visible to the naked eye, but if they are present and then they are unknowingly brushed away or washed away later (or anything else like this), it is a profanation of the Eucharist. The doctrine of the Church holds that Christ is present whole and entire in every particle of the blessed sacrament.

[phatcatholic]

i understand

like i said, there are pitfalls w/ both practices. both forms of reception require prudence.