gay marriages

[dairygirl4u2c]

I do not understand why someone cannot think that even though something is untrue/immoral, it cannot at the same time be the truth that allowing other's to partake in nontruth/immorality is in fact truth. No one is saying that the issue itself is truth; simply allowing others to engage andor think it is, is what the truth is. It seems to me to be respect and therefore truth to allow others to partake in nontruth, but to catholic's it's about being your brother's keeper and simply insisting on a plea to truth that cannot be gone against no matter what. The brother's keeper I understand to a degree, but you can always voice your opinion to them without denying them fairness, and the plea to truth ipso facto just cuz it's the truth to a degree, but it ultimately still seems like it's truth to respect and be fair.

If we were the minority, we'd want people allowing our ways of life. If it becomes simply majority rule, that's immoral in my mind.

As a Catholic, I would understand because the Church says so, but as even as a Catholic, I would not undestand why we have to deny them a general notion of marriage in the law (remember it's not our church they're changing).

The CC's teachings on this issue is immoral.

Edited September 18, 2005 by dairygirl4u2c

[avemaria40]

Maybe it's b/c as Christians, we're held accountable to each other, including fighting for what we believe is right

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Maybe it's b/c as Christians, we're held accountable to each other, including fighting for what we believe is right[/quote]

I only answer because you said exactly what the arguments are I said were, not sure if you meant it, interesting. ie brother's keeper and plea to truth.

Would you like it if mormons thought marriage was between a man and multiple women, and they denied you having marriage be a man and one woman? Of course you wouldn't, but what you seriously think this is what society is meant to be? Of coruse you'd say no. You'd say society is meant to be the truth as taught by the CC, and if it's not, then Catholics have to change society, but should anyone else be in that position of power, it's not right that they try to change it. Not right in the sense of not truth the marriage they teach and not fair. Or do you think it's fair, just not right? I think that's teh question.... (poll time)

[avemaria40]

But gay marriage is against natural law. That's the thing. And most mormons don't even believe in the concept of polygamy. I have Mormon family and friends who affirm this truth. Also, there are health risks to homosexual activity, where there aren't in monogamous heterosexual activity.

[dairygirl4u2c]

Okay, humor me and hypothetically speaking if the mormons said that what would you think? And you mention monogomous for the heteros but not the homos..

Can someone else answer that ?... or just go to my poll.

[Socrates]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Sep 18 2005, 03:50 PM']Okay, humor me and hypothetically speaking if the mormons said that what would you think? And you mention monogomous for the heteros but not the homos..

Can someone else answer that ?... or just go to my poll.
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Marriage is between a man and a woman. While the Mormans are wrong in allowing multiple wives, even they have a better understanding of marriage than you and the "gay rights" crowd. Marriage has always been about men and women being united for the purpose of having and raising children.
"Gay marriage" has nothing to do with that. It's two men or two women commiting sodomy with one another. This has nothing to do with the meaning of marriage as it was understood for thousands of years.

And we Catholics believe the Catholic Church is right about marriage and the Mormons are wrong (and the "gay rights" people are even more wrong. End of story.

If you're looking for a relativistic, "morality is determined by majority vote" answer, you've come to the wrong forum.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Sep 18 2005, 03:24 PM']Homosexual supporters equate disagreement with intolerance frequently.  It gets to the point where it is no longer a question of us tolerated them, but of them being intolerant of us; hence Christians heading into the closet vacated by the homosexuals to which I much admit contains some truth.
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I very much agree with this, and I think the concept goes beyond homosexual supporters. Christianity is not cool anymore.

I think what homosexual couples should be requesting is not "gay marriage", but more comprehensive civil unions. I don't condone homosexual behavior at all, but using our government's stance on equality, there should be greater rights/stipulations included with civil unions. Instead, people are turning the issue into more than it needs to be by bastardizing a well-formed, long established institution (regardless of religion).

[Semalsia]

I suppose it is imposing our values on others. But then again, so is making murder illegal too to those who think killing others should be allowed. It's a question of in what kind of society you want to live. Whether it is imposing values on others doesn't really matter. Both sides know they are right.

And the catholic idea of marriage is dead already. There is nothing gay marriage can do to it that hasn't already been done by straight marriage. It's time you leave it with dignity and move on.

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 19 2005, 04:45 PM']It's a question of in what kind of society you want to live. Whether it is imposing values on others doesn't really matter. [/quote]
Exactly right - and our society does not allow murder. Love it or leave it.
[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 19 2005, 04:45 PM']And the catholic idea of marriage is dead already. There is nothing gay marriage can do to it that hasn't already been done by straight marriage. It's time you leave it with dignity and move on.
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Heh, sounds like we're talking about Michael Jordan here. The idea of a heterosexual, monogomous, faithfully unbroken union for life is hardly dead. Rather, some people have reduced themselves to accepting that their marital vows are really nothing more than some lies uttered to pass a societal milestone, have a fancy party, and boink to their heart's content without having to embassingly explain their common address at a family reunion. If not that then they are merely ripping off the name hoping it will lend their relationship some sort of validity in the minds of whom marriage survives as some semblance of it's original self (that would be our society). Relationships, marital or otherwise, have become yet one more aspect of our life compromised for the sake of convenience and ease of use - no different than the throw-away Glad tupperware that's filling our landfills. Am I missing some profound reality that refutes this analysis?

Move on from marriage, indeed. How about people not bother degrading it into a travesty if they can't live up to the institution that it is? How about they just call it something more apropos like "playing house" or "shacking up"? Instead of husband or wife, let it be "LTR partner" or some such that isn't a rip-off. Don't try to be part of the club if you're not in and deep down don't really even want to be in the club.That would be leaving marriage with dignity. Again, love it or leave it.

Again, am I missing something here?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Sep 19 2005, 04:45 PM']I suppose it is imposing our values on others. But then again, so is making murder illegal too to those who think killing others should be allowed. It's a question of in what kind of society you want to live. Whether it is imposing values on others doesn't really matter. Both sides know they are right.

And the catholic idea of marriage is dead already. There is nothing gay marriage can do to it that hasn't already been done by straight marriage. It's time you leave it with dignity and move on.
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We'll keep fighting for what is right, whatever you and others say.
It is cowardice to declare defeat and walk away from moral battles just because evil is accepted by much of society.

All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

[hierochloe]

Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
Murphy: Aye.

[StatingTheObvious]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Jul 2 2005, 12:43 PM']I remember a lot of you (esp ironmonk) saying that allowing gay marriages is imposing our morals on you who do not accept gay marriages. I know a key point that would explain how you are being imposed on, but no one has mentioned it explicitly that I have seen. Can you explain how you are being imposed on?
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[/quote] All societies make rules and judgements of what they want to accept and not accept. Accepting everything is anarchy. If I want to raise my kids and live my life where marriage is between 2 people of different sexes, then I live with other people that agree. Those who disagree can live elsewhere. There isn't a dominant gay community in Daytona Beach like there is in Key West. There isn't enough gays to accomplish that. It's as simple as the premise "Birds of a feather, flock together."

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='Chris of Zewe' date='Sep 18 2005, 08:43 AM']Not going to read the gigantic wall of text before me, because I really don't [i]care[/i] about the intolerant Catholic beliefs on the matter, but I'd just like to point out that marriage is about [b]love[/b], and you fall in [b]love[/b] with the person, not their gender.

On that subject... YOU CAN'T HUG YOUR CHILDREN WITH NUCLEAR ARMS!

I really hope at least one of you got that...
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/feeds troll

i dont even have to be religious to squash this.

if marraige is about love for the other person, do you imply that gay people can only love eachother while married? ill answer for you and say "no". so if they have all that love outside of marraige why get married if its only about love for eachother?

(Certainly marriage isnt about the abiltiy to get goverment gifts like visitation rights. Being able to see a sick person you care about is a freedom all people are given government or not. besides, marraige has been around a helluva lot longer than this goverment.)

so what, again, is the reason for marraige?

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Chris of Zewe' date='Sep 18 2005, 08:43 AM']Not going to read the gigantic wall of text before me, because I really don't [i]care[/i] about the intolerant Catholic beliefs on the matter, but I'd just like to point out that marriage is about [b]love[/b], and you fall in [b]love[/b] with the person, not their gender.

On that subject... YOU CAN'T HUG YOUR CHILDREN WITH NUCLEAR ARMS!

I really hope at least one of you got that...
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Chris, I bet we all got that, but, I also bet none of us agree with you. And someone can love someone, but, when you marry you choose to love them I think. Because you can stop loving them and just get fed up with them (which is why people get divorced) but the marriege is true when you choose to live with the person in unity and a will to accomplish Gods will for the whole family.

Anyways that has nothing to do with this, so, I'll shut up now. But if God wanted us to marry the same gender, dont you think the couple would be able to have a child, which you cannot do with the same gender!! It makes sense to me!!!

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='Sep 20 2005, 02:36 PM']/feeds troll

i dont even have to be religious to squash this.

if marraige is about love for the other person, do you imply that gay people can only love eachother while married? ill answer for you and say "no". so if they have all that love outside of marraige why get married if its only about love for eachother? 

(Certainly marriage isnt about the abiltiy to get goverment gifts like visitation rights. Being able to see a sick person you care about is a freedom all people are given government or not. besides, marraige has been around a helluva lot longer than this goverment.)

so what, again, is the reason for marraige?
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Ehem...I believe the sign said "Don't feed the trolls"