Melchisedec Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 7 2005, 11:45 AM']You are mistaken on what Catholics say about it. I suggest you go to the link I mentioned above, which is: [url="http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html"]http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html[/url] Get educated on a subject that you attempt to sound intelligent and we will take you seriously. [/quote] After reading your sources, I dont see how it at all contradicts what I was saying the catholic view of homosexuality is. Maybe you can help me rectify my comments. [quote]On a side note, do you dare read this? [url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0002.html"]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ics/ap0002.html[/url] God Bless, ironmonk [right][snapback]634451[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I did indeed read it. Nothing new there. Do you dare to read this , touche [url="http://www.infidelguy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=311"]http://www.infidelguy.com/modules.php?name...article&sid=311[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:00 PM']After reading your sources, I dont see how it at all contradicts what I was saying the catholic view of homosexuality is. Maybe you can help me rectify my comments. [/quote] It provides a wealth of evidence contradicting the assertion that homosexualtiy is genetic or inborn, and that it cannot be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:35 PM']hey ironmonk, preciate the article i skimmed through it. but i am aware of most of that stuff anyway......makes me wonder if "coming out" is just a scapegoat for people......maybe by coming out in these groups they feel comforted with the issue. [right][snapback]633808[/snapback][/right] [/quote] OH MEL, what up.....ur right......and i am not trying to blame that at all........im just looking back at the serious of events in my life, and well, the robitussin incident came first before the molesting of my cousin......im not blaming the robitussin thing for my actions im just wondering if it had anything to do with anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 7 2005, 10:15 AM']One overdose of robitussin and now you are battling inner demons, homosexuality? I don't buy that at all. I think you can blame the robitussin all you want, but the problem has been festering inside of you long before that day. [right][snapback]634259[/snapback][/right] [/quote] yes i believe that homosexuality is purely a psychological issue........i also believe u when u said that ur brother-in-law has accepted himself and is living a happy life now. But quite honestly, you do not know what your brother-in-law has been through. you may know some things, but i bet u dont know everything. So to use your brother in law as an example in this thread is bad because we dont (and u dont) know the truth about what your brother in law has been through. So it is meaningless. You mentioned something about science not being able to back up the therapy that some go through to seek freedom from this burden. As far as that goes........science has never been able to prove that people are born this way. It is not genetic so what is it? Well, research show that homosexuality is actually an environmental thing. Read about the research they did on 100 sets of twins which contained at least 1 homosexual in each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 7 2005, 10:15 AM']One overdose of robitussin and now you are battling inner demons, homosexuality? I don't buy that at all. I think you can blame the robitussin all you want, but the problem has been festering inside of you long before that day. [right][snapback]634259[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This should have been your question........one overdose of robitussin mixed with antipsychotic pills that created a chemical reaction that fried a bunch of neurons in your brain and left you with severe depression and now you are battling inner demons, homosexuality? dont leave all the details out bro.. Edited July 7, 2005 by infinitelord1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 (edited) the problem has been inside of me since i was 5 years old.......it only got worst because of depression later in life. It made me even more depressed. And i can testify that i am getting better.......maybe even having some attractions towards females. Edited July 7, 2005 by infinitelord1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:10 PM']It provides a wealth of evidence contradicting the assertion that homosexualtiy is genetic or inborn, and that it cannot be changed. [right][snapback]634545[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where do I imply that its a genetic predisposition? I simply say it is not something you can choose to switch on and off. I think its intrinsic to that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:44 PM']Where do I imply that its a genetic predisposition? I simply say it is not something you can choose to switch on and off. I think its intrinsic to that person. [right][snapback]634587[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No one is claiming that homosexuality is something that can easily be switched on and off. And nowhere does the Catholic Church teach that. The article does give examples of it being healed, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:44 PM']Where do I imply that its a genetic predisposition? I simply say it is not something you can choose to switch on and off. I think its intrinsic to that person. [right][snapback]634587[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, ok, forget genetics and being "born that way" then. Lets talk about the "switch" that you are referring to. I have been to the groups that u say your brother-in-law has been to. They claim that hundreds are living a heterosexual life. These who live normal lives now also claim that anybody can live a normal heterosexual life. So my question to you mel.......do you believe them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:23 PM']yes i believe that homosexuality is purely a psychological issue........i also believe u when u said that ur brother-in-law has accepted himself and is living a happy life now. But quite honestly, you do not know what your brother-in-law has been through. you may know some things, but i bet u dont know everything. So to use your brother in law as an example in this thread is bad because we dont (and u dont) know the truth about what your brother in law has been through. So it is meaningless. You mentioned something about science not being able to back up the therapy that some go through to seek freedom from this burden. As far as that goes........science has never been able to prove that people are born this way. It is not genetic so what is it? Well, research show that homosexuality is actually an environmental thing. Read about the research they did on 100 sets of twins which contained at least 1 homosexual in each. [right][snapback]634560[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I for one do not know if there is some heterosexual gene anymore than a homosexual one. What I do know is that, homosexuality exists in nature which can imply a variety of things. Genetic predisposition is certainly one of them, but sociological conditions aswell I suppose can come into play in the wild. The problem with twins are that you are ascribing a deterministic view upon them. Since they are genetically the same, they should grow up to be the same person. Epigenetics have shown that through twins life span, there is a divergence in traits that are expressed and are not expressed. The sociological implication to homosexuality is that we can develop a recipe to create a homosexual. The problem is that, its not at all consistent. My brother-in-law grew up in the same house as 4 other brothers did. Took part in everything the family did. For all sense and purposes had a great childhood. In his case, he felt gay from the start. That was his main struggle. Even you say in a message you posted that you were at the age of 5 when you started to struggle with it. What can you possibly know at 5 to make you even think of being attracted to other boys? My uncle, was similar. My mom raised him since he was a child, she noticed in him a femininity. She knew he would become gay. It came to fruition. I don't know what causes homosexuality, nor heterosexuality. I do know that its not a conscience choice. Nor do I believe in most cases its out of some sort of trauma you went through as a child. I do not discount that this is possible, but I do not believe based off my experience that this is the case in the bulk of homosexuality. The thing that cannot be explained is why people are born with an innate feeling for desire of the same sex. In order for you assertion to be correct, you would have to deny that is at all possible for this to occur. Your argument soley relies on that people are compelled to be gay due to childhood trauma of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:51 PM']Well, ok, forget genetics and being "born that way" then. Lets talk about the "switch" that you are referring to. I have been to the groups that u say your brother-in-law has been to. They claim that hundreds are living a heterosexual life. These who live normal lives now also claim that anybody can live a normal heterosexual life. So my question to you mel.......do you believe them? [right][snapback]634600[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Great question. I would say that some of them were in fact changed by the experience and live great lives. I also believe some live in a type of denial. I had a friend of mine, whos dad was gay. I was shocked when I heard it, thinking to myself, how the heck were you concieved. She told me that her dad and mom were married for 15 years, and her dad came out to the family and divorced his wife. He had told his daughter he was gay his whole life but just couldn't accept it. That to me shows that its definitely possible for a person to deny an attraction to the same sex. Now I want to state that I do believe people who go through traumatic experiences can express that through becomming gay or promiscuous. I've seen this firsthand aswell. I am not at all denying that to be possible. I equally also do hold that there are people born gay. Should we believe those who claim they were born gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 7 2005, 02:16 PM']Great question. I would say that some of them were in fact changed by the experience and live great lives. I also believe some live in a type of denial. I had a friend of mine, whos dad was gay. I was shocked when I heard it, thinking to myself, how the heck were you concieved. She told me that her dad and mom were married for 15 years, and her dad came out to the family and divorced his wife. He had told his daughter he was gay his whole life but just couldn't accept it. That to me shows that its definitely possible for a person to deny an attraction to the same sex. Now I want to state that I do believe people who go through traumatic experiences can express that through becomming gay or promiscuous. I've seen this firsthand aswell. I am not at all denying that to be possible. I equally also do hold that there are people born gay. Should we believe those who claim they were born gay? [right][snapback]634633[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Also a good question and a question that i have asked myself for a while now.......the more and more i have learned about the topic suggests that it is not genetic and is in fact psycological. So no.....i dont believe that anybody was born gay. Those who believe they were born gay......we will never know if they were or werent. Something could have happened to them when they were so young they dont remember.......could have been the way they were raised.......could have been anything........different people react to things in different ways. For example, if me and you were sitting down at mcdonald's and a terrorist came in and forced us to go skydiving.......you might say "yes, i love skydiving!!!!". I might say, "no, i am afraid of heights!!!!!!!". The experience may be traumatic for me but to you it would be an adventure. Just because u like skydiving does that mean u were born that way? Edited July 7, 2005 by infinitelord1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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