freewill in the eyes of a gay man

[rckllnknny]

infinite....whether or not its me or a therapist tellin ya... the most important thing to know is youre gonna be aight. for real. LOVE..RICK...& um out this thread!

[ironmonk]

Just want to make sure you see this brother.


[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 6 2005, 10:42 AM']Hey bro,

Did you get a chance to read this?
[url="http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html"]http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html[/url]

It's from the Catholic Medical Association.

At one time I was studying to be a psychiatrist, the more I learned about psychology, the less I believed pills were the answer, then I dropped the Chemistry major part and stuck with psychology as my major. The more I learned about psychology the more I realized that there are so many bad psychologists out there and the APA's are a joke (American Psychiatric/Psychologist Assosciations). Now, at 32, I'm still in school going for a degree in CIS.

They seem to have tried for fix men without paying attention to man's needs. i.e. healthy psyche includes body, mind, and spirit. Most in the world of psychology ingore man's spiritual need - the spiritual need is the foundation of health. I do not think that any non-Christian psychologist/psychiatrist will be able to help you. If you are going to go to a psychologist/psychiatrist, I would suggest finding one that has a strong Catholic faith.

The best psychologist/psychiatrist that you can find will be a Catholic Priest. Also, there is a ton of psychology in the bible. With God, you can change anything about yourself that you want, but it does take time and it can seem hard to do. I believe that the fact that you are discussing it on this forum shows that you have the strength and will to do so.

Read Scripture, other spritual readings of the saints, and most of all pray. If you can, spend at least 10 minutes a week in adoration of the Lord in the Eucharist. Pray for Our Mother's intercession. Something that helped me was to read at least one chapter a day in the bible starting with the New Testament and giving it some thought... if you want to read more, then do so, but read at least one a day, and never stop, read it over and over.
One last thing, you are right, nothing matters if there is no God. There is a God, and His Church is the Catholic Church.

Please read this:
[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0002.html"]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ics/ap0002.html[/url]

If in doubt, remember Pascal's wager...
The smartest gamble would be to believe in God. Because....

If we live like we believe in God, and there is no God, we loose nothing because nothing matters anyway if we go into oblivion.

If we live like there is no God, and there is God, we loose everything and spend eternity in hell.

Isn't it the wiser choice to live like there is a God, even if there isn't?

I know for a fact that there is a God, but when I doubted, Pascal's wager helped me hunt for the answers. The article above summarizes the answers that I found that are undeinable with simple logic/reason.

Please read the above to articles and give them a lot of thought.
God Bless,
ironmonk
[right][snapback]633039[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[point5]

Matt,

I think you need to read and follow up on alot of the advice peeps are giving you. Much of this is sound advice especially from Phatcatholic, Ironmonk, and the trained therapists on board.

I also suggest looking into some Therapist (perferably Catholic) and priest in the College Station area. I think it would be wise to get on the phone with on or see one in person, and discuss your financial situation. I bet there are solutions for any financial situation. It would be unethical to turn away someone clearly in need of help.

You need to figure some personal things out before running into the army. I feel you are using that as another scapegoat. The army is just another temporary fix/solution, but we must get to the root of things before we can start growing and changing for the better.

I love you homie

-Kiel

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 6 2005, 09:42 AM']Rick, please stop for a second.

hot stuff's last post was in no way intended to be insulting. 

On the other hand, your last post seems insulting.  It doesn't matter what part of town any of us come from, so that's not even necessary to say.  You are more than entitled to an opinion, but please try to give your opinion in a respectful manner.

You keep saying this thread is about infinitelord, so why not just drop the whole issue all together?  Let's get back to what this thread was first about, which is infinitelord. 

C'mon, please?
[right][snapback]633085[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
rick man and hot stuff,
i cant help but laugh at u guys......ur crackin me up.......but the arguement really is kinda pointless........hot stuff, since u are a therapist, i think u should know better than to be offended and persue an arguement with someone over being called a quack......u should have just stated that he was wrong and why then ignored the rest. Rick, stop instagating hot stuff. Also, rick, u dont even know bro........look where i am from........Flint. Read about it if u wish. Murder capital of the world.

[ironmonk]

Just because someone is a trained/certified therapist does not mean that they know what they're talking about. It all depends on what school of thought (or lack of) they come from.

The APA is scam, as I mentioned in a post above. Some therapists can do more damage than good.

"Get therapy", I would say is a bad suggestion.

Get counceling from someone with strong Catholic faith and morals or a Catholic Priest, I would say is a good suggestion.

Almost anyone can become a therapist and many of the ones that I have met are flakes.



God Bless,
ironmonk

[Carrie]

Therapists are getting a bad rap here based on generalizations. Frankly, not all therapists are these bad, poorly trained people who do more harm than good.

Lots of people are helped by therapists every single day. What many don't understand is that a therapist won't solve all your problems. What people should realize is that therapists are a tool from God that can be used with prayer and faith for healing.

Take note, neither phatcatholic, hot stuff, or I ever just said "get therapy." We all emphasized that prayer, faith, and God are the most important and nothing can replace that BUT therapy can be a God-given tool to help someone through difficulties.

[Jaime]

[quote]Get counceling from someone with strong Catholic faith and morals or a Catholic Priest, I would say is a good suggestion.

Almost anyone can become a therapist and many of the ones that I have met are flakes.

[/quote]

The same can be said for counselors.

Most counselors are simply not trained on the intricacies of the human psyche. There are issues that they will not be able to counsel properly on.

[KizlarAgha]

Hey infinitelord -

First of all, prayers for you in your situation I think that is what you need first and foremost from people. Secondly, I think that hot stuff and Carrie are making good suggestions about therapy. Antidepressants from a psychiatrist are like painkillers for the mind. However, they don't treat the actual problems you're suffering from. That is what therapy is designed to do - treat the source of the problem so that you can overcome it.

I was reading about your struggles with suicide and with praying to God for a cure to your problems and I want to say something very hard. God may not cure your homosexuality. In fact, He probably won't. That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist and it doesn't mean that God hates you and it doesn't mean that He isn't listening. What it means is that you were meant to struggle in this way for one reason or another.

I know how distasteful that must sound, I really do. In fact, even though I know it to be the truth, I have a hard time believing it myself when things get really difficult. I just want you to know what the Archangel Gabriel said to Zachariah. He said, "Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard." He said a similar thing to the prophet Daniel, telling him, "As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given." That's the truth. God is listening, and God hears you, and God wants you to feel better. How that healing will take place, I couldn't begin to tell you. It might come as the cure you pray for, miracles do happen. It might come with your own acceptance of who you are and a decision to live in accordance with God's laws. I just want you to know that the answer is there, and that God is there too. Killing yourself probably looks pretty tempting some of the time, I know I think about it every day, but it isn't the right answer.

So I just wanted to tell you that no matter what happens, no matter what you do wrong, and no matter how bleak it seems; God is there for you and He loves you and people are praying for you.

Salaam olaykum,

Alina

[infinitelord1]

I think the main reason he has my on anti-depressants is because i had an experience when i was 14.........i took a bottle of robitussin with anti-psychotic pills..........well i never felt like i was completely coming down from this experience. This psychiatrist told me that this experience did 2 things to me..........killed many brain cells because of a chemical reaction between the pills and cough medicine.........secondly, left an imprint of depression on my brain. The pill are intended for 2 purposes......in hopes that it will help with my chemical imbalance (which it has been) and hopes that it will lift this scaring imprint of depression.
I think therapy is a good thing for some people and maybe not so effective for others. Even therapy from a non-religious perspective can be good just not as effective.

Edited July 7, 2005 by infinitelord1

[infinitelord1]

sometimes it makes me wonder if through this robitussin experience i became more vulnerable to evil. The person who came up with this idea is an atheist.......makes me wonder if through his demons other people were effected.

[infinitelord1]

hey ironmonk,

preciate the article i skimmed through it. but i am aware of most of that stuff anyway......makes me wonder if "coming out" is just a scapegoat for people......maybe by coming out in these groups they feel comforted with the issue.

Edited July 7, 2005 by infinitelord1

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:27 PM']I think the main reason he has my on anti-depressants is because i had an experience when i was 14.........i took a bottle of robitussin with anti-psychotic pills..........well i never felt like i was completely coming down from this experience. This psychiatrist told me that this experience did 2 things to me..........killed many brain cells because of a chemical reaction between the pills and cough medicine.........secondly, left an imprint of depression on my brain. The pill are intended for 2 purposes......in hopes that it will help with my chemical imbalance (which it has been) and hopes that it will lift this scaring imprint of depression.
I think therapy is a good thing for some people and maybe not so effective for others. Even therapy from a non-religious perspective can be good just not as effective.
[right][snapback]633801[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

One overdose of robitussin and now you are battling inner demons, homosexuality? I don't buy that at all. I think you can blame the robitussin all you want, but the problem has been festering inside of you long before that day.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 6 2005, 08:30 PM']sometimes it makes me wonder if through this robitussin experience i became more vulnerable to evil. The person who came up with this idea is an atheist.......makes me wonder if through his demons other people were effected.
[right][snapback]633804[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


First of all 'comming out' to me means , accepting yourself and removing the feelings of shame and fear from the indivual. The closet is fear, fear that if you expose yourself, you will not be loved. I know how thats like in the religious sense. Will my family not love me because I'm an Atheist. Will I be considered evil now. Catholics always try to play the card that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. This ofcourse is considered to be highly radical approach to it. With no real science to back it up. Because we simply dont have definitives on what causes homosexuality. The morality issue on homosexuality is purely a religious one. In which you, infinitelord have bought into. The idea that we can fix homosexuality through therapy and treatment is an absolute pipedream. My brother in law was in one of these groups for 3+ years. Fighting with his homosexuality. Suffering from depression, seeking solace in scripture and God. He decided to accept himself, come out to his family and now lives a healthy wonderful life. He loves and accepts himself. Hes a great human being. Do you truly believe there is some switch that needs to be flipped so you can be attracted to women? Is there a switch that we all have that can be flipped to make me a homosexual? Does this mean, that we can develop a therapy that turns hetrosexuals into homosexuals? Are we saying, outside of heterosexuals, that sexual oreintation is something developed on a purely psychological basis?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jul 7 2005, 01:01 PM']First of all 'comming out' to me means , accepting yourself and removing the feelings of shame and fear from the indivual. The closet is fear, fear that if you expose yourself, you will not be loved. I know how thats like in the religious sense. Will my family not love me because I'm an Atheist. Will I be considered evil now. Catholics always try to play the card that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. This ofcourse is considered to be highly radical approach to it. With no real science to back it up. Because we simply dont have definitives on what causes homosexuality. The morality issue on homosexuality is purely a religious one. In which you, infinitelord have bought into.  The idea that we can fix homosexuality through therapy and treatment is an absolute pipedream. My brother in law was in one of these groups for 3+ years. Fighting with his homosexuality. Suffering from depression, seeking solace in scripture and God. He decided to accept himself, come out to his family and now lives a healthy wonderful life. He loves and accepts himself. Hes a great human being.  Do you truly believe there is some switch that needs to be flipped so you can be attracted to women? Is there a switch that we all have that can be flipped to make me a homosexual? Does this mean, that we can develop a therapy that turns hetrosexuals into homosexuals? Are we saying, outside of heterosexuals, that sexual oreintation is something developed on a purely psychological basis?
[right][snapback]634361[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


You are mistaken on what Catholics say about it.

I suggest you go to the link I mentioned above, which is:
[url="http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html"]http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html[/url]

Get educated on a subject that you attempt to sound intelligent and we will take you seriously.

On a side note, do you dare read this?
[url="http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0002.html"]http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/...ics/ap0002.html[/url]



God Bless,
ironmonk

[point5]

[quote]One overdose of robitussin and now you are battling inner demons, homosexuality? I don't buy that at all. I think you can blame the robitussin all you want, but the problem has been festering inside of you long before that day.[/quote]

While I understand what you are saying...this particular overdose should not be overlooked. I don't think it has anything to do with the homosexual desires...but it has affected his mental state big time. Ive known him since that incident happened...it wasnt just an overdose...he drank a whole bottle of it mixed with other drugs...and since that day has told me has has never felt sober again.

-Kiel