cmotherofpirl Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 My copy is pre-ordered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeldra Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 *continues reading harry potter* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 [quote name='Nicole8223' date='Jul 13 2005, 01:54 PM']Good points Colleen. An earlier post made me think.... Would you read a book about homosexuals engaging in sin? Or about abortion and how it makes things better? Of course not....so why read a book about spells and the occult, even if it is not a true story, it is a sinful topic.... Maybe I am being too extreme for some, but I would liken it to reading a book with pornographic content in some sense...because of the nature of the occult and how harmful it is. [right][snapback]642076[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I suppose by the same token that all murder mysteries are out...not to mention comic books, Shakespeare, and every history textbook ever written. You have to understand a story within the context of it's fictional universe. In Harry Potter's universe, magic exists and it's not always evil. In our universe, it is always evil. It is possible to place oneself within the shoes of a character and not think that his universe is the same as ours and that the same rules apply. The nature of the occult is extremely harmful, I don't doubt it...but the "occult" in Harry Potter can hardly relate to the real occult that occurs. The storylines have clear marks of fiction, for starters. Additionally, the "spells" are made up little words and phrases with absolutely no real meaning. You'd have to condemn MacBeth if you're going to condemn Harry Potter on that account. The stories are meant to be enjoyed and they're meant to make you think. They are not meant to slip people into the occult. If you can't recognize the fictious nature of the books, then don't read them. Finally, one can hardly relate it to pornography. Reading a book on pornography would be bad...reading a book on made-up occult stories is not the same. Pornography is real. Harry Potter and his brand of the occult are not. Real occultism is much, much worse and operates on entirely different principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I consider myself very loyal to the pope, and a big fan of many of the once Cardinal Ratzinger's writings. They are full of a great deal of truth and cunning and edifying to read. However I also like a lot of Christian rock, and I like the Harry Potter series. To me they both should be taken with a grain of salt, which our Pope has graciously provided. If I was someone raised in Catholicism, in home school, without any other experience but that, I might wonder what all the hype was about. I would likely not find the time nor the energy to read long-winded books about things which have never interested me, and would wonder what their value was. AND, if I did read them, I would probably be concerned about how those books contained values not entirely complimentary to my own. Ergo, the likely reason for Pope Benedict's opinion.... A book is like a good conversation between you and another person. I don't always shun a person whose values may be different than mine, because sometimes I simply want to experience their personality. It is when I know that such a person is intrinsically dangerous to me or somehow using what I say against me that I would usually back away from a conversation. Same with books. If you are someone who comes from a background where you feel attacked by those who are different than you, perhaps you shouldn't read these books. Perhaps you should also not complain and let the rest of the world enjoy their company. Mayhap they feel the same way about you anyways... With books, oftentimes ENJOYMENT is a decent factor in whether or not a book is good for you, so long as that ENJOYMENT does'nt then lead you to the delights of sin (and, no, walking around saying sin isn't delightful is not a good idea, Satan's got that much figured out, OK?). Also knowing how detached you can be in matters that are foundational to your life (like Faith and Morals) you can be from the book should also indicate to you how you should proceed (devour or leave alone). Most entertainments that we enjoy are like people we enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 13 2005, 05:30 PM']I suppose by the same token that all murder mysteries are out...not to mention comic books, Shakespeare, and every history textbook ever written. You have to understand a story within the context of it's fictional universe. In Harry Potter's universe, magic exists and it's not always evil. In our universe, it is always evil. It is possible to place oneself within the shoes of a character and not think that his universe is the same as ours and that the same rules apply. T[right][snapback]642460[/snapback][/right] [/quote] First I hope you are not seriously comparing Shakespeare to Rowling Second your point is flawed because Harry Potter is set in our Universe not in a fictional universe of some other place -- such as Middle Earth. Further Magic is presented in it as good while unmagical muggels are evil or at best Stupid. It is not that magic is part of the story which makes Harry Potter dangerous or even that Magic is a tool for use of good or evil; it is much subtler than that, Potter is in a real place set in modern times and there is no seperation from reality made in the work. Remember his Holiness said it was inappropriate for Children, notfor adults, I think one should take what he says seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 13 2005, 03:30 PM']I suppose by the same token that all murder mysteries are out...not to mention comic books, Shakespeare, and every history textbook ever written. You have to understand a story within the context of it's fictional universe. In Harry Potter's universe, magic exists and it's not always evil. In our universe, it is always evil. It is possible to place oneself within the shoes of a character and not think that his universe is the same as ours and that the same rules apply. The nature of the occult is extremely harmful, I don't doubt it...but the "occult" in Harry Potter can hardly relate to the real occult that occurs. The storylines have clear marks of fiction, for starters. Additionally, the "spells" are made up little words and phrases with absolutely no real meaning. You'd have to condemn MacBeth if you're going to condemn Harry Potter on that account. The stories are meant to be enjoyed and they're meant to make you think. They are not meant to slip people into the occult. If you can't recognize the fictious nature of the books, then don't read them. Finally, one can hardly relate it to pornography. Reading a book on pornography would be bad...reading a book on made-up occult stories is not the same. Pornography is real. Harry Potter and his brand of the occult are not. Real occultism is much, much worse and operates on entirely different principles. [right][snapback]642460[/snapback][/right] [/quote] well said i agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jul 13 2005, 07:09 PM']First I hope you are not seriously comparing Shakespeare to Rowling Second your point is flawed because Harry Potter is set in our Universe not in a fictional universe of some other place -- such as Middle Earth. Further Magic is presented in it as good while unmagical muggels are evil or at best Stupid. It is not that magic is part of the story which makes Harry Potter dangerous or even that Magic is a tool for use of good or evil; it is much subtler than that, Potter is in a real place set in modern times and there is no seperation from reality made in the work. Remember his Holiness said it was inappropriate for Children, notfor adults, I think one should take what he says seriously. [right][snapback]642480[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Harry Potter is in an alternate universe then where magic really works. Its not real -really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 13 2005, 07:00 PM']Harry Potter is in an alternate universe then where magic really works. Its not real -really [right][snapback]642501[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well duh. However, the "alternate" universe [i]very closely resembles[/i] our own and to many children that is close enough. Especially those children with busy parents who are just happy their child is reading (which is an altogether other virtue). It's funny how the only thing said by His Holiness is that it might be inappropriate for unformed children. Might be. You people sure get defensive over something that is "harmless". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
journeyman Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I liken Hary Potter to Katherine Kurtz (Deryni series) or Patricia McKillip (Riddlemasters of Hed) - an imaginary world in which certain abilities are available to some, and not to others. To paraphrase the NRA - Magic doesn't kill people, people kill people. The use of one's abilities, and the moral struggle to do right, are inherent in these literary efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 [quote]Harry Potter is in an alternate universe then where magic really works. Its not real -really [/quote] But you see Magic is really real, and that is the problem. The occult is not dangerous because it is a fake but because it is not a fake. Satan really grants powers to people through magic, and many a child has been seduced because of it. Scroipture tells us that Magic is real, so does the Tradition of the Church, and so my dear Cmom will any witch or satanic sorcerer ( not that most witches realise they are serving Satan). You see I take these things a bit more seriously because I have seen magic at work I have felt its power. And I have seen the enemy face to face. Magic is most certianly real, it really works--- REALLY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 (edited) [quote name='journeyman' date='Jul 13 2005, 07:26 PM']I liken Hary Potter to Katherine Kurtz (Deryni series) or Patricia McKillip (Riddlemasters of Hed) - an imaginary world in which certain abilities are available to some, and not to others. To paraphrase the NRA - Magic doesn't kill people, people kill people. The use of one's abilities, and the moral struggle to do right, are inherent in these literary efforts. [right][snapback]642511[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well I have not read those series but I will say agian Harry potter is not seperated into an imaginary world-- for that matter it is not even seperated by time. It is not long ago in a land far far away but in modern times, in England--- very real to a child. I am not hostile to Fantasy not at all. I am the great defender of fantasy, but Harry potter is dangerous precisly because it is not fantastic enough. It is very real, and while the incantations are silly they are not so silly as you may think-- this is an "incantation" said over a love potion, this a real incantation and the potion is intended to subvert the will, mind you this is not some silly teen witch book but a serious book of spells which warns of the dangers of crafting love spells. By the way this is for a women creating the charm. I will not give the details of the preperation of this mixture but the entire incantation is thus-- " He is to me and I to he. As one we ever shall be" t his is repeated over and over above the mixture and then the mix ( which must be prepared according to the exact magical requirments) is addded to anothers food, drink or whatever. but that is the entire " incantation" they don't have to be very complicated and they might be silly sounding, but magic is quite real and when dealing with young children should be treated with the respect other dangerous things are. Would you let your 8 yearold read a book where the Hero was an Aztec priest who preformed human sacrafic and ate his victims-- well there is little differance between that and Harry Potter- precisely because it is dealing with a very real thing in a real enviornment. Now personally I think from a literary point of view they are atrocious but that is another thing all together. I think it is acceptable for fully formend adults to readthem, I just think it is a sad wwaste of precious reading time. Edited July 14, 2005 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 So life will go on. Some people will read it, enjoy the ability of man to take part in creation as he uses his imagination, some people will whine and cry and pitch fits to no end, but alas, life will go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jul 13 2005, 08:02 PM']So life will go on. Some people will read it, enjoy the ability of man to take part in creation as he uses his imagination, some people will whine and cry and pitch fits to no end, but alas, life will go on. [right][snapback]642539[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't hear any whining or crying or fit pitching except by those who say, "I'm readin' it and you can't stop me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 [quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jul 13 2005, 08:23 PM']You people sure get defensive over something that is "harmless". [right][snapback]642509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No, we get defensive over being told that we're against the pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 13 2005, 08:11 PM']No, we get defensive over being told that we're against the pope. [right][snapback]642549[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Did anyone say you were against the Pope? I didn't see anyone say that. Are you feeling guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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