Nathan Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 [quote name='Didacus' date='Jun 28 2005, 06:05 AM']Another thing that returns often, is the attitude that no one can be catholic unless they are ignorant and stupid. i got that a heck of alot in my university days - catholic? but aren't you in engineering? how can you be so smart and stupid at the same time?[/quote] This is so true it hurts. Admitting that one is Catholic/Christian is akin to admitting that one is borderline retarded in the eyes of most liberal academics. I have no idea when this insane notion took root and spread like cancer, but there it is -- never mind that many of the great academic minds of the 20th century were devout Catholics. Just in the arena of philosophy, we've got Charles Taylor, Jacques Maritain, Etienne Gilson, Frederick Copleston, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Floyd Centore, Germain Grisez... Not long ago I informed an atheist friend at the University of Toronto that both Marshall McLuhan and J.R.R. Tolkien were extremely religious Catholics throughout their lives -- he didn't believe me until I Googled it and several websites confirmed it. Fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 [quote name='Didacus' date='Jun 28 2005, 06:05 AM']Anti-catholicism is rampant in the press and in daily lives. Even in my region of the world which is something like 70% catholic, because most 'catholics' don't practice anymore. When debating a moral subject, I never reveal anymore that I am catholic unless I have no choice or the people with whom I am debating already know. As soon as strangers know that someone is catholic, that simple fact seems to be enough to discredit you entirely. Quebec (french province of Canada) is one of the worst places in north america when it comes to anti-catholicism. It very sad. Cardial Ouellette was actually one of the last, if not the last cardinal named by JPII. He was considered one of the 20 most propable successors to the throne of Peter, yet, he resides in Quebec, which is the sespool of liberism in Canada. Now there is a cardinal who has his work cut out for him! Another thing that returns often, is the attitude that no one can be catholic unless they are ignorant and stupid. i got that a heck of alot in my university days - catholic? but aren't you in engineering? how can you be so smart and stupid at the same time? (of course the people saying this thought it was a funny joke, but it didn't take a future engineer to figure it wasn't 100% joke). Let me end this post by quoting one of the top 5 dumbest things I ever heard a liberal atheist say: "If ever I get married, I want to get married in a catholic church. It's soo... sooo... traditional. That church has been around for at least 150 years you know?!" ignorant dumb-****es. [right][snapback]626063[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I totally aree . Im sick of it also !!!. :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 the double standard that exists today is ghastly. those of us who are intelligent enough to notice see the enormity of the task ahead of us if we are to go against the flow and teach Truth. those who dont notice (and that is a scary number) are so drunk with the ideas of "tolerance" and other liberal toxics that its almost laughable that they dont see some of these obvious truths slapping them in the face (like the whole deal about it being ok to bash christians for whatever reason). man oh man does the Holy Spirit have His work cut out for Him. stay strong though guys, one thing ive learned from public highschool: its hard to become fluent in a language until you go to the country and speak it; such is also the case with apologetics Rise Up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Since Catholicism is still 'new' for me, I especially noticed it before and even now. If I told you what my brother said to me when I informed him that I would be received in the Church, you'd faint....and he was baptised Catholic. He later apologized and of course I forgave him, but my point is that it seems to becoming 'ingrained' in especially Americans. I started to evangelize someone at work a while back, mostly to help him get through the loss of his father and his resulting hatred of God for "taking his father away". I gave him a book to read, after we had discussed some things in it and he expressed a sincere interest in it. I told him to feel free to ask any questions afterward. About a month later I asked him if he had read it and he told me no. He said he had given it to a friend who enjoyed ripping the Church apart and asked for the book. After talking for a while on Catholic subjects, since he said he 'was' Catholic but no longer since his father's death, he then said to me that if the Church could produce the Ark of the Covenant then he would gladly come home. Being that he claimed to have read and understood more of Scripture than I, I just looked at him and said, "Your kidding, right? May I humbly suggest you read that book I gave you and use it with the Bible and your question would be answered." He then asked if the answer was in the Bible... Lord, help me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilmGuy127 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I have to say that I haven't noticed this at all. I haven't really looked for it in the press so I won't comment about that. Other than to say I don't think Catholics are the only ones... I'm thinking specifically about Islam which has gotten terrible press in recent years. Much worse than any reported Catholic bashing. Just look at how many stories there have been about the women and headcoverings in Islamic society. This is something that has been a tradition in these societies that grew out of the religion and now western media is putting out story after story about how backwards and bad it is... So, if there is Catholic bashing in the media I dont think we are alone. I will comment about the level of catholic bashing that i have experienced in my own life. I went to a very liberal school, lots of artists and theater people, if those stereotypes help to give you a picture, so I was understandably wary about telling people i was catholic. But, and this supprised me the most... I almost got more respect when they found out. I have friends who range from atheists, to wicken, to pagan, and just about anything else. Myself and the other 3 or 4 catholics who are in my peer group recieve a lot of respect for our beliefs. People at my school seem to respect us for having a strong belief, even if it is not their own. So, as far as liberal catholic bashing is concerned i havent seen any. I would say the opposite. I think i have seen more catholics bashing other religions than the other way around. This is especially on this site. I see a lot of people talking about the catholic church being the only church with the "truth" and though this may be the belief, that does not make it a fact. Many times it seems to me that people are knocking down other religions because they dont have the "truth". That may be your belief and you are entitled to it. But, It feels like to me that there is not a whole lot of respect for alternate beliefs and a lot of these other beliefs get bashed by catholics because their belief does not allow for there to be alternate equally valid beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 [quote name='FilmGuy127' date='Jun 28 2005, 08:08 PM']I would say the opposite. I think i have seen more catholics bashing other religions than the other way around. This is especially on this site. I see a lot of people talking about the catholic church being the only church with the "truth" and though this may be the belief, that does not make it a fact. Many times it seems to me that people are knocking down other religions because they dont have the "truth". That may be your belief and you are entitled to it. But, It feels like to me that there is not a whole lot of respect for alternate beliefs and a lot of these other beliefs get bashed by catholics because their belief does not allow for there to be alternate equally valid beliefs. [right][snapback]626834[/snapback][/right] [/quote] FilmGuy, what do you believe about the Catholic Faith? Do you believe it is the One True Faith revealed to us by God through His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, or do you beleive it is just one of many religions, with no more rightful claim to truth than any other belief system? As Catholics we beleive ours is the One True Church and source of all Salvation. Therefore, it is charitable to try to lead others to the Faith. (I know this probably sounds weird to modern ears.) This does not justify uncharity towards or "bashing" people of other religions, but arguing the truth of the Faith against other beliefs is not the same as "bashing" others. All religions or belief systems cannot logically be equally valid. Their claims contradict one another. A Catholic does not believe the same as a Baptist who does not believe the same as a Muslim who does not believe the same as an atheist. All cannot be true. If you claim that all beleifs are equally true or valid (relativism), then you are really saying that you don't believe any are true, including Catholicism, or that they are all only partially true. To take religion at all seriously, one must beleive that the truth of one's religious beleifs is important. To say otherwise is to say that religion doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea316 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I hear a lot of it personally, especially because I'm not Catholic (but possibly on the road to it) and have grown up around Catholic-bashers. I mean, lots of it isn't anything hardcore and ruthless, but just little things I pick up on. Like, saying stupid stereotypical things and cracking lame jokes and whatnot. And just the other day at work, I heard some guys talking about religion in general, and then proceeded to make tacky comments about Catholicism, and said "Well no one here is Catholic and would take offense so..." but little did they know, I did. Anyways, I think it is evident all around, just maybe in some locations and stuff more than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I didn't read the whole thread, but I just want to say this. The only reason it seems that Catholics are the brunt of more abuse than others is because you are Catholic. Believe me, everyone gets it, although some less than others. As for free speech, there are certain things we can't say, yes, but maybe complete free speech is not a good thing. In their own homes yes, but not in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea316 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 [quote name='Mikhail' date='Jun 28 2005, 09:26 PM']The only reason it seems that Catholics are the brunt of more abuse than others is because you are Catholic. [right][snapback]626950[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Hmm, I understand the point you're making, but I dunno... I am not Catholic but I hear more jabs at Catholics than most other religions or groups of any kind. But then again, its true, there are other confounding factors that you have to take into consideration... I mean, I'm from a Lutheran family and church, so of course I'm gonna hear more than someone who is Catholic themselves. But I see what you're getting at. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilmGuy127 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 response to socrates: Oh I agree that it is quite impossible to believe that all religions have the truth. But my belief that my religion has the whole truth and that any other religion only has some fractured part of the truth doesn't mean that the other religions belief that they posses the whole truth is any less valid. I believe I have the truth. My hypothetical hindu friend believes he has the truth. My belief says he is wrong and his me. But my belief does not make his belief any less valid or vise versa. We both believe our version is the truth but in the end neither can know for certain. If we knew for certain why would we need faith? So, I think that as long as that is his belief I should respect it, even if i think he is wrong. I can tell him my belief, what i think, and why. Even tell him i think he should believe the same as me. But i think that i owe his belief a certain amount of respect. And what i was saying earlier is that i dont think there is a lot of respect for people with a diffrent belief on pm or in the world as a whole for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Yes, I agree we need to respect everyone's beliefs. I also believe it is impossible to achieve 100% truth because that would be equal to being perfect. There are always things we can improve on. However, I think we can be sure that our truth is true. Faith is where we believe something that can't be proved. It is when we know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 [quote name='FilmGuy127' date='Jun 28 2005, 10:56 PM']response to socrates: [ snip]for that matter. [right][snapback]627085[/snapback][/right] [/quote] A quick way to discern weither someone is respectfully objecting to a religion or attacking disrespectfuly a person is to look at the core of what is being said and see if it is aimed at a person, or at the religion itself. What I am referring to in this thread a personnal attacks upon individuals, and not critics of a particular religion. A statement saying "All catholics are ignorant." is aimed at the individuals taking part in the religion, another statement "Catholicism is filled with ignorant ideas." is not and leaves room for the individual to be respected. However, I understand your point and must admit the shinobi flows both ways at times. Personally, I must disagree with you, as I think the shinobi flows towards catholics a lot more nowadays, and that has been a growing tendency for an entire generation as far as I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Oppression is quite a strong word for just rude, ignorant and spiteful comments, don't you think? I mean, it's not like catholics were fearing for their health, occupation or freedom on a national level. And is it not the catholics who are trying to eradicate certain group of people from the society? Who's oppressing who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 [quote name='Semalsia' date='Jun 29 2005, 02:56 PM']Oppression is quite a strong word for just rude, ignorant and spiteful comments, don't you think? I mean, it's not like catholics were fearing for their health, occupation or freedom on a national level. And is it not the catholics who are trying to eradicate certain group of people from the society? Who's oppressing who? [right][snapback]627669[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I said it was quickly becoming, not that it was. And these days... the catholics definately have the short end of the stick... and though the stick ain't pouding our heads in the ground yet... seems to be coming... Read an article not too long ago about a christian priest who spoke his church's views on homosexuality in B.C. (British columbia, not birth control), and he was arrested and charged for hate speech. If a protestant denomination is starting to have trouble speaking its 'truth' by fear of being arrested, what about the catholics who actually hold an even stricter doctrine? It might not be here jsut yet... but it is in the making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 [quote name='Didacus' date='Jun 29 2005, 03:02 PM']I said it was quickly becoming, not that it was. And these days... the catholics definately have the short end of the stick... and though the stick ain't pouding our heads in the ground yet... seems to be coming... Read an article not too long ago about a christian priest who spoke his church's views on homosexuality in B.C. (British columbia, not birth control), and he was arrested and charged for hate speech. If a protestant denomination is starting to have trouble speaking its 'truth' by fear of being arrested, what about the catholics who actually hold an even stricter doctrine? It might not be here jsut yet... but it is in the making. [right][snapback]627675[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The existance of "hate speech" laws is clear proof that we are becoming an Orwellian society! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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