Semperviva Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 [i]Apart from its physical importance as a relic, the Holy Foreskin is sometimes claimed to have appeared in a famous vision of Saint Catherine of Siena. In the vision, Jesus mystically marries her, and his amputated foreskin is given to her as a wedding ring. However, this has not been traced any earlier than a seventeenth-century anti-Catholic parody, and as such is of dubious credibility.[/i] .....it seems to me that although the origin of the story may be dubious ... i see no reason to consider this a reason to dismiss the story as imaginitive parody or mockery...it is very in line with tradtion i think....for ex, one ceremony the Church held in practice for a long time (don't know the name of it, its pre-vat 2 i think) has the priest light a candle saying prayers and then plunging the candle into the baptismal font as a symbol[i] (good word, symbol)[/i] of Christ impregnating the church with the divine life...so i don't see why anyone should be weirded out by that idea, and of course, if it was true, that Christ give such a thing to Catherine of Siena, S[b]atan would try right away try to pervert it and make it seems foreign and weird[/b](btw, clinical and terms like like "amptated foreskin" just don't seem like the right way to refer to Christ even though it may or may not have happened)...and the fact that this idea was made into a parody it seems just the patternand typical mark of of SAtan's work-just like he tried to corrupt every other truth as the father of lies and it only makes sense that an embittered Protestant would make fun of anything Catholic and if anything the fact that it was a parody at all means there was maybe some basis in the whole story in reality as well... maybe...because parodies start with something real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 4 2005, 05:22 PM'][i]Apart from its physical importance as a relic, the Holy Foreskin is sometimes claimed to have appeared in a famous vision of Saint Catherine of Siena. In the vision, Jesus mystically marries her, and his amputated foreskin is given to her as a wedding ring. However, this has not been traced any earlier than a seventeenth-century anti-Catholic parody, and as such is of dubious credibility.[/i] .....it seems to me that although the origin of the story may be dubious ... i see no reason to consider this a reason to dismiss the story as imaginitive parody or mockery...it is very in line with tradtion i think....for ex, one ceremony the Church held in practice for a long time (don't know the name of it, its pre-vat 2 i think) has the priest light a candle saying prayers and then plunging the candle into the baptismal font as a symbol[i] (good word, symbol)[/i] of Christ impregnating the church with the divine life...so i don't see why anyone should be weirded out by that idea, and of course, if it was true, that Christ give such a thing to Catherine of Siena, S[b]atan would try right away try to pervert it and make it seems foreign and weird[/b](btw, clinical and terms like like "amptated foreskin" just don't seem like the right way to refer to Christ even though it may or may not have happened)...and the fact that this idea was made into a parody it seems just the patternand typical mark of of SAtan's work-just like he tried to corrupt every other truth as the father of lies and it only makes sense that an embittered Protestant would make fun of anything Catholic and if anything the fact that it was a parody at all means there was maybe some basis in the whole story in reality as well... maybe...because parodies start with something real [right][snapback]631660[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Some of us still insist on reality rather than "oh so cute" religious fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 4 2005, 06:06 PM']RESPONSE: Some of us still insist on reality rather than "oh so cute" religious fiction. [right][snapback]631693[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You're acting like religion is fiction... In reality, non-religion is much more fictional and new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 [quote name='scardella' date='Jul 5 2005, 09:40 AM']You're acting like religion is fiction... In reality, non-religion is much more fictional and new. [right][snapback]632083[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: No. That's not what I wrote. However, it is necessary to separate fact from fiction in religion, science, scripture, etc. In the case of religion, if people can be convinced that they are dealing with a pronouncement of God, they usually will believe anything without examining the basis of the claim. That's the real danger with religious teachings. They frequently are not closely examined. Many just accept them as true. LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Well, it would seem consistent with what we know about Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Note to Semperviva: Prolly best to ask things like this somewhere besides the Debate Table, unless you actually wanted this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote name='scardella' date='Jul 5 2005, 03:56 PM']Well, it would seem consistent with what we know about Satan. [right][snapback]632419[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: What is the source of your information about Satan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Isn't this thread supposed to be about mystical theology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote name='philothea' date='Jul 5 2005, 06:31 PM']Note to Semperviva: Prolly best to ask things like this somewhere besides the Debate Table, unless you actually wanted this nonsense. [right][snapback]632535[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ...... ...haha....yeah, diden't really want the nonsense either.....oopsie daisy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 (edited) so...question.....meister eckhart....german mysticfrom 1300's and was a theologian as well as 'father of german mysticism'.... i believe he got excommunicated for his mystical teachings....but don't (it seems) alot of mystics [i]originally[/i] get censored for their teachings, maybe just cuz they sometimes seem so rad. at first ...yah know? Edited July 6, 2005 by Semperviva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 6 2005, 10:03 AM']Isn't this thread supposed to be about mystical theology? [right][snapback]633113[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Sure. Doesn't Satan play a big role in mystical theology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Certainly, but this discussion appears to be simply an intellectual exercise. Mystical theology is about the experience of God in prayer. The participation of man in God's own uncreated life and glory. It isn't definitional or conceptual, it is experiential and personal. Blessing to you, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semperviva Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 6 2005, 10:51 AM']Certainly, but this discussion appears to be simply an intellectual exercise. Mystical theology is about the experience of God in prayer. The participation of man in God's own uncreated life and glory. It isn't definitional or conceptual, it is experiential and personal. [right][snapback]633196[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 6 2005, 10:51 AM'] Mystical theology is about the experience of God in prayer. The participation of man in God's own uncreated life and glory. It isn't definitional or conceptual, it is experiential and personal. [/quote] RESPONSE: How do you rule out illusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 6 2005, 10:07 AM']RESPONSE: How do you rule out illusion? [right][snapback]633260[/snapback][/right] [/quote] How do you rule out rationalism? Mystical theology isn't about emotions or intellect, it transcends both, because it is a participation in God's uncreated energies. You are a rationalist, and that is why you fear what you cannot understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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