jezic Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jun 24 2005, 10:33 AM']hey now, it's not just the Americans.... [right][snapback]621556[/snapback][/right] [/quote] very true .... the sickness of the people in the world is felt by the church. Yet i am from america so guess who i hear about you probably are to .... hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote]you cannot purge homosexuality.[/quote] Sure you can. You bar homosexuals from entering the seminary, and throw out those who are homosexual. You do so with all charity, of course, and explain why it is an unacceptable disorder for the Catholic priesthood. And then you focus on proper psychological/sexual formation for existing seminarians. They need to understand the nature of the vocation of celibacy, and how to carry it out in a healthy way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote]are priests that act on heterosexual desires any different? No[/quote] Yes, they are. Heterosexuality is not a disorder of the human person. Homosexuality is. Now, that is not to say heterosexual misconduct is ok. But it's not a disorder. Heterosexual men are not barred from the priesthood a priori. Homosexual men are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Jun 24 2005, 09:16 AM']Did I say any of that? And no, that is not how we got into this sex abuse scandal. We had a few men who were sinful. [right][snapback]621462[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: And too many bishops who insisted on silence. This morning's paper (The Oregonian), in a front page story, tells how the plaintiffs lawyers are trying to get a deposition from Archbishop Levarda as to what he knew and when he knew it. Predictably, they've met with resistence. Of course, once back in the Vatican, like Archbishop Law, he'll no longer be subject to United States courts' jurisdiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 mistakes have been made in the past, yes. But it's time now to learn from these mistakes and move on. The whole Church should not be criticised because of a few addeled eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote]Now, that is not to say heterosexual misconduct is ok. But it's not a disorder. [/quote] That is incorrect. Sins against chastity are disordered. The sin of masturbation is intrinsically disordered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:37 AM']Sure you can. You bar homosexuals from entering the seminary, and throw out those who are homosexual. You do so with all charity, of course, and explain why it is an unacceptable disorder for the Catholic priesthood. And then you focus on proper psychological/sexual formation for existing seminarians. They need to understand the nature of the vocation of celibacy, and how to carry it out in a healthy way. [right][snapback]621561[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Eremite's post conforms perfectly with the 1961 instruction [u]Religiosorum Institutio[/u], which said, "Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers." [[u]Religiosorum Institutio[/u], Part 2, Section 30, no. 4, issued 2 February 1961 by Blessed Pope John XXIII through the Sacred Congregation for Religious] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 24 2005, 11:46 AM'] [quote]Did I say any of that? And no, that is not how we got into this sex abuse scandal. We had a few men who were sinful.[/quote] RESPONSE: And too many bishops who insisted on silence. This morning's paper (The Oregonian), in a front page story, tells how the plaintiffs lawyers are trying to get a deposition from Archbishop Levarda as to what he knew and when he knew it. Predictably, they've met with resistence. Of course, once back in the Vatican, like Archbishop Law, he'll no longer be subject to United States courts' jurisdiction. [right][snapback]621574[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Didn't answer my question, tho.....and just perhaps Cardinal Law was one of those sinful men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 24 2005, 10:46 AM'] This morning's paper (The Oregonian), in a front page story, [/quote] This explains a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Jun 24 2005, 10:21 AM']EIGHTY-ONE PERCENT of sexual abuse cases were with boys, and most of them of a post-pubescent age. That's called homosexuality, not pedophilia. Homosexuality is a disorder of the human person. Until it is dealt with, and purged from our seminaries, the scandals will not go away. [right][snapback]621534[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Aren't you confusing hebephilia with homosexuality? "Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Jun 24 2005, 10:38 AM']Yes, they are. Heterosexuality is not a disorder of the human person. Homosexuality is. [/quote] Whoa! What is your evidence? I don't think you'll find the professional psychological or psychiatric associations making any such claim. Why don't you ask your friendly librarian to direct you to the DSM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 24 2005, 09:14 AM']RESPONSE: Aren't you confusing hebephilia with homosexuality? "Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180). [right][snapback]621618[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Do you mean ephebophilia? Ephebophilia is related to the homosexual condition, because it involves a desire by adult males for sex with adolescent males. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='Eremite' date='Jun 24 2005, 10:37 AM']Sure you can. You bar homosexuals from entering the seminary, and throw out those who are homosexual. You do so with all charity, of course, and explain why it is an unacceptable disorder for the Catholic priesthood. And then you focus on proper psychological/sexual formation for existing seminarians. They need to understand the nature of the vocation of celibacy, and how to carry it out in a healthy way. [right][snapback]621561[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Eremite--- Shockingly we agree. I think everything you said above is exactly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 24 2005, 11:23 AM']Do you mean ephebophilia? Ephebophilia is related to the homosexual condition, because it involves a desire by adult males for sex with adolescent males. [right][snapback]621631[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: That may be true, but please note that the majority of child sex abusers are not homosexuals. They are usually heterosexuals or sometimes bisexual. Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted June 24, 2005 Author Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 24 2005, 11:23 AM']Do you mean ephebophilia? Ephebophilia is related to the homosexual condition, because it involves a desire by adult males for sex with adolescent males. [right][snapback]621631[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thats exactly what it is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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