MC Just Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 (edited) i just got done watching "our Fathers" a movie about the scandals, that glorifies the liberal posiition and demonizes the Magesterium. This topic gets me very angry. I mean, you can see the work of the liberals clearly. They are for gay and lesbian rights, they wanted gays in the priesthood, they wanted people who were doctrinally and morally lax, so they rejected 2 generations of holy men, who had true callings to the priesthood. What do we get? Men dressed as priests touching boys. Next thing you know, the liberals are on the "survivors" side and acting as heros, when they are actually responsible for the whole thing. I wish the true story about the scandals would be told on the news. People leave the church, blaiming the entire church including Rome for the Scandals. Liberals get away scotch free. Edited June 24, 2005 by MC Just Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marboniface Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 It sure is frustrating. However, the virtue of the faithful, who persevere in the face of having the sanctuary stained by the presence of so many hypocrites in Holy Orders, is surely greater because of the difficulties they endure. The only way that the clergy will be made purer is if numbers of good seminarians endure the present difficulties and are ordained - and then persevere in both their virtue and the priesthood. We should all be praying for seminarians. As much as I would very much love to see the good prevail in this life, the sure knowledge that the good will prevail in the age/life to come is consoling. Marboniface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartjp2 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Yeah, on my local television news network, there was a story with a guy telling about how a priest, who was a family friend, sexually took advantage of him. It puts priests in a bad light and the statistics show that it's the bare minority of priests that do this, not to justify it, it's just not what they make it out to be at all. It could make parents who aren't that trusting of their church as they are of today's media worry about something that would never happen to them anyway because they're priest doesn't do those things. Not according to the media. They make it out to seem that celibacy makes them act this way, but come on! If they do it in the priesthood, they would probably do it outside of the priesthood anyway, they just use it as a ploy to get you to trust them. Celibacy has nothing to do with it. The guy said himself that whenever he sees the white collar, he's scared. He doesn't trust not one, which obviously means he's not Catholic anymore, since the Catholic priest presides over the mass and the sacrament of reconciliation in the confessional. Those people aren't really "survivors" in any sense if they don't trust not even one Catholic priest or member of the clergy. If they were truly healed and "survived" something, in my opinion, they'd be able to. God bless Mary intercede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Jun 24 2005, 12:46 AM']i just got done watching "our Fathers" a movie about the scandals, that glorifies the liberal posiition and demonizes the Magesterium. This topic gets me very angry. I mean, you can see the work of the liberals clearly. They are for gay and lesbian rights, they wanted gays in the priesthood, they wanted people who were doctrinally and morally lax, so they rejected 2 generations of holy men, who had true callings to the priesthood. What do we get? Men dressed as priests touching boys. Next thing you know, the liberals are on the "survivors" side and acting as heros, when they are actually responsible for the whole thing. I wish the true story about the scandals would be told on the news. People leave the church, blaiming the entire church including Rome for the Scandals. Liberals get away scotch free. [right][snapback]621317[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Might you be confusing homosexual men with men who molest children and adolescents? I think that if you research the topic more fully, you will find that the molestors are in a different group. And whether they are liberals or conservatives is not predictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Jun 24 2005, 01:46 AM']i just got done watching "our Fathers" a movie about the scandals, that glorifies the liberal posiition and demonizes the Magesterium. This topic gets me very angry. I mean, you can see the work of the liberals clearly. They are for gay and lesbian rights, they wanted gays in the priesthood, they wanted people who were doctrinally and morally lax, so they rejected 2 generations of holy men, who had true callings to the priesthood. What do we get? Men dressed as priests touching boys. Next thing you know, the liberals are on the "survivors" side and acting as heros, when they are actually responsible for the whole thing. I wish the true story about the scandals would be told on the news. People leave the church, blaiming the entire church including Rome for the Scandals. Liberals get away scotch free. [right][snapback]621317[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Totally agree....I have watched it as well. I am going to watch it again the next time that it is on and I will respond....I think that you are on the money though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='marboniface' date='Jun 24 2005, 01:14 AM']It sure is frustrating. However, the virtue of the faithful, who persevere in the face of having the sanctuary stained by the presence of so many hypocrites in Holy Orders, is surely greater because of the difficulties they endure. The only way that the clergy will be made purer is if numbers of good seminarians endure the present difficulties and are ordained - and then persevere in both their virtue and the priesthood. We should all be praying for seminarians. As much as I would very much love to see the good prevail in this life, the sure knowledge that the good will prevail in the age/life to come is consoling. Marboniface [right][snapback]621322[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Perhaps the "only way" that the clerical leadership of the Church will improve is if the activities of its bishops are made more transparant and they become accountable to the clergy for their actions and failures to act appropriately when a problem develops. Analzying the present crisis, is it the actions of the abusers or that of the bishops in handling these incidents that has caused the greatest damage to the Church? The good of the Church and not their career concerns should be their primary concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Jun 24 2005, 12:46 AM'][snip] People leave the church, blaiming the entire church including Rome for the Scandals. Liberals get away scotch free. [right][snapback]621317[/snapback][/right] [/quote] L'homme honnete vas toujours payer pour les voleurs. The honest man will always pay for the work of thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:00 AM']RESPONSE: Perhaps the "only way" that the clerical leadership of the Church will improve is if the activities of its bishops are made more transparant and they become accountable to the clergy for their actions and failures to act appropriately when a problem develops. Analzying the present crisis, is it the actions of the abusers or that of the bishops in handling these incidents that has caused the greatest damage to the Church? The good of the Church and not their career concerns should be their primary concern. [right][snapback]621375[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I totally disagree....It would be chaos and it would undermine authority. Would you allow the department managers run a multimillion dollar conglomorate? The leadership of the Church is not the problem. The sins of a few should not dictate what you are proposing. The Church is dealing with the "scandal." You are setting up a straw man (albeit, not totally set up yet).....I would stop before you stub your toe again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Jun 24 2005, 07:10 AM']I totally disagree....It would be chaos and it would undermine authority. Would you allow the department managers run a multimillion dollar conglomorate? The leadership of the Church is not the problem. The sins of a few should not dictate what you are proposing. The Church is dealing with the "scandal." You are setting up a straw man (albeit, not totally set up yet).....I would stop before you stub your toe again. [right][snapback]621377[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: So you believe that the Church leadership should be allowed to operated in secrecy only allowing the laity to know what they think it is good for them to know? Isn't that how we got to where we are now in the present sex abuse scandal? And I write for an archdioceses which has 297 claims pending and has declared bankruptcy for that reason. And, contrary to the archdiocese's obvius wishes, they have just been required to release over 200,000 pages of documents dealing with it's leadership's actions in handling the sex abuse scandal. This lawsuit is not from the victims. This resulted from a lawsuit filed against the archdiocese by its insurers. They claim that ,if the archdiocesan leadership knew of the abuse and didn't act effectively to prevent it, the insurers do not have to pay. If these documents find their way into the media, we might have a fascinating "60 Minutes" special! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 24 2005, 08:56 AM']RESPONSE: So you believe that the Church leadership should be allowed to operated in secrecy only allowing the laity to know what they think it is good for them to know? Isn't that how we got to where we are now in the present sex abuse scandal? And I write for an archdioceses which has 297 claims pending and has declared bankruptcy for that reason. And, contrary to the archdiocese's obvius wishes, they have just been required to release over 200,000 pages of documents dealing with it's leadership's actions in handling the sex abuse scandal. This lawsuit is not from the victims. This resulted from a lawsuit filed against the archdiocese by its insurers. They claim that ,if the archdiocesan leadership knew of the abuse and didn't act effectively to prevent it, the insurers do not have to pay. If these documents find their way into the media, we might have a fascinating "60 Minutes" special! [right][snapback]621400[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Did I say any of that? And no, that is not how we got into this sex abuse scandal. We had a few men who were sinful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 see interesting enough, i think the thing had to break and break hard. God was cleaning junk out of His church. Sometimes it has to happen the wrong way, but none-the-less it is still important. the bigger question is what is all this house cleaning for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote]A USCCB investigation revealed in 2004 that 81 percent of 10,667 priestly sexual-abuse cases involved boys, with the largest share of those victims being 11 or older. [url="http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050614-114626-2482r.htm"]http://washingtontimes.com/national/200506...14626-2482r.htm[/url][/quote] EIGHTY-ONE PERCENT of sexual abuse cases were with boys, and most of them of a post-pubescent age. That's called homosexuality, not pedophilia. Homosexuality is a disorder of the human person. Until it is dealt with, and purged from our seminaries, the scandals will not go away. [quote]Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers. --1961 document from the Sacred Congregation for Religious[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 you cannot purge homosexuality. You can only change it. Trying to rid yourselves of it will just drive people never to talk about it or deal with the feelings which is what they need to be healed. Rather they should encourage seminarians/others to freely talk about it with spiritual advisors and get to the point where they recognize it as a work of satan and seek always to maintain a proper mentality. THen there would be nothing to worry about. But getting people with the feelings to hide heals nothing. the sickness of the AMerican people is felt by the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Jun 24 2005, 10:31 AM']the sickness of the AMerican people is felt by the church. [right][snapback]621553[/snapback][/right] [/quote] hey now, it's not just the Americans.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 are priests that act on heterosexual desires any different? No Do they not need the same sort of counseling? Yes they need to learn to not act on desires either. It is the same thing and you disqualify one group of people because they have nearly the same problem as a different group but one is normal and the other isn't. How does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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