Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I didn't say they don't deserve it. I said they are not worshipping. We should regulate the liturgy solely for the purpose of having people worship, and if doing that drives people away then they weren't worshiping anyway. we have a crises of faith and a low priest-person ratio that prevents some faithful Catholics from receiving the sacraments. But our churches abound with people who would flee away if they didn't like the way the liturgy was??? then let them flee, it is their choice. at least we'll be better equipped to deal with the faithful who actually worship at mass rather than looking for something that they can get out of it. "Ask not what the Church can do for you, ask what you can do for the Church" "Ask not what God can do for you, ask what you can do for God" indult means an allowance... permission given. thus to have an indult means we are allowed in the United States to deviate in some specific way from the norms of the Latin Rite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 that makes sense (the indult part) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='Oik' date='Jun 21 2005, 02:30 PM']With the New Missal coming out, we will see a Sacred English being used. This is exciting! [right][snapback]618317[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I am so looking forward to the new missal! The current translation is annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 yeah... Rome could just at any point in time revoke any indult it wants to... it would just require us to follow the normal norms. indults are meant to help with inculturation... but I fail to see why we should be elevating American priggishness (i.e. being too uncomfortable to receive on the tongue et cetera) to the status of American culture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [quote name='philothea' date='Jun 21 2005, 04:42 PM']I am so looking forward to the new missal!  The current translation is annoying. [right][snapback]618405[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oh my goodness, me too! do you remember when Raymond Arroreo(sp?) broke that story? I was jumpin up and down! It was like a year ago, and then I found out it'd take like 3 years to translate and get approved and such and I was bummed. But it'll be comin... and I can't wait! she'll be comin down from Rome when she comes! she'll be comin down from Rome when she comes! She'll be comin down from Rome, she'll be comin down from Rome, she'll be comin down from Rome when she comes! she'll be layin down the smackdown when she comes! she'll be layin down the smackdown when she comes! she'll be layin down the smackdown she'll be layin down the smackdown she'll be layin down the smackdown when she comes! smackdownin liturgical translation errors when she comes! smackdownin liturgical translation errors when she comes! smackdownin liturgical translation errors smackdownin liturgical translation errors smackdownin liturgical translation errors when she comes! errr... yeah ok... i'm odd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 why don't you like the english? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 the translation made by the ICEL in force right now is horrid. it takes away alot of the ritual that you wouldn't even think about. the greatest example is when we say "and also with you" err... sounds kind of informal chit chattery... hey you, over there, yeah the guy in the priest vestments! the actual translation of the official text of the current Missa Normativa (yes, the mass we do now in its normal state is Latin, vernacular parts are allowed to be put in and as it stands now, most put every part in vernacular and pretend that's the norm) is "and with your spirit" it's just so much more.. spiritual. like Oik said above, it'll be more sacred english... yeah we'll have vernacular but we're at least gonna be reverent about it, ya know. the Spanish have it right... I believe almost everyone else has it translated right... but it's just so hard to find english speakers who don't have agendas. the ICEL recognizes its past translation blunders and is currently redoing the whole thing though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 (edited) that is cool. I don't see anything wrong with the phrase but maybe because i grew up around it. *new thread* Edited June 21, 2005 by jezic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 trust me, when the new missal comes out and you experience it, you'll notice the difference. that doesn't sound like it would have much significance, but it really does in practice. it's hard to explain, you'll just have to see for yourself how using a sacred english increases the revenrence and changes the atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 YAY! He's an awesome bishop! One of Lincoln's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Ah fooey. I had a link to a first draft of the new English translation, but it's been taken down "in order to protect the secrecy of the consultation process". Anyway, trust me, it's gorgeous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 NO WAAAY!!!! what... I wanna see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesChristi Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Hooray for Bishop Olmsted. Great news for the people of Arizona! I've also seen the first draft of the new English translation of the normative Mass. It's a [b]vast[/b] improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 [url="http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=33160"]http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=33160[/url] gives a few examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 Really I think the solution to this is either to split the Latin Rite itself into the Roman Rite and the Tridentine Rite with separate patriarchs, canon law, etc. or to create a personal prelature wherein all of the communities, parishes, chapels, priestly fraternities, and religious orders would be under an Archbishop. This would allow some permanence and flexibility and would make growth more possible. The bishops and Archbishops who ran the prelature could establish parishes and communities independent of local bishops and could negotiate the allowance of the Tridentine Mass in diocesan parishes. In other words the system would be more orderly and systemic. Creating a new Church sui juris also has its advantages though, in that it would yield permanence and nearly complete freedom, but I think this would be very detrimental to Catholic unity. A separate personal prelature seems much more practical AND it could control some of the more radical traditionalist communities better than the present system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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