Original Sin, or actually Original Sins?

[Apotheoun]

Let's take a look at what the Pope himself said in [u]Ordinatio Sacerdotalis[/u]: "Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Luke 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and [i]that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful[/i]." Now what exactly is it that must be definitively held? Is it the teaching that women cannot be ordained? Yes, but is it more than this? The answer to that question is, yes, it is more than this, because the text actually says that all the Church's faithful must hold the [i]judgment[/i] of the Pope on this matter to be [i]definitive[/i]. In other words, the Pope has bound the whole Church to [i]his judgment[/i] that women cannot receive priestly Orders. Now if a [i]judgment[/i] is to be held definitively, it follows, of its very nature, that the [i]judgment[/i] in question is infallible, because it is not possible to give definitive and thus irrevocable assent to something that is merely contingent or transitory. Clearly the Pope's [i]judgment[/i] in this case is a definitive and thus infallible non-defining act of the Ordinary Papal Magisterium, and this particular [i]judgment[/i] receives its infallible character from the fact that it is a [i]judgment[/i] of the [i]head of the Episcopal College confirming his brothers in the faith[/i], as the faith has been taught throughout time by the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Jun 21 2005, 03:07 PM']The First Vatican Council specifically limited the infallible character of individual definitions to ex cathedra pronouncements. This avoids the extreme of holding every papal declaration as infallible, while at the same time not limiting the infallibility of the Church to ex cathedra pronouncements (a concept further developed at Vatican II).
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This is simply false, because by defining the Extraordinary authority of the Papal Magisterium, it does not follow that the First Vatican Council in any way denied or limited the infallibility of the Ordinary Papal Magisterium, since that was not the focus of the Dogmatic Constitution [u]Pastor Aeternus[/u]. You are confusing the defining acts of the infallible Magisterium with the non-defining acts of the infallible Magisterium, whether enacted by the Pope (taken alone as head of the Episcopal College) or enacted by the universal Episcopate in communion with its head.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jun 21 2005, 01:42 PM']Declaration as such.

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Now maybe[i] I[/i] am being obtuse but I don't see how the following could not be a declaration as such.
[quote]I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.[/quote]

That seems pretty much like a declaration as such he uses the words I DECLARE what more could one ask for from a declaration?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jun 21 2005, 11:33 AM']While I may be wrong, I have understood that, while there were indeed two seperate sins for which each was individually morally culpable, when we refer to "the Sin of Adam" and by that term we mean "Original Sin" we attribute the communal culpability (for the sin of the community) to Adam, who was its head and leader.

Edit: By this, I mean to say that Adam assumes a certain degree of responsibility for the Original Sin, even if technically Eve's personal sin was prior to his, for the first sin was committed "under his watch" so to speak, and he should take responsibility for those under his care. Thus, we rightly call "Original Sin" "The Sin of Adam."
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That's a well reasoned response. I've been reading up on Mary as Co-redemptrix theology in Dr. Miravalle's "With Jesus" and he seems to lay out many Church Fathers saying that Mary was co-redemptrix subordinate to Jesus as Redeemer, just as Eve was cooperator in Adam's original sin...thus, it seems understood in tradition that it was Adam's sin, in which Eve cooperated.

*just realized this thread is way too long to get involved now*

*runs away*