LittleLes Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 In the present, this from Catholic World News: "According to the survey, 87 percent of Catholic doctors said they would "prescribe birth control pills to any adult patients that request them and for whom they are medically appropriate." Of the doctors who were surveyed, 93 percent said they agreed. Also, 90 percent of the Catholic doctors surveyed support the promotion and use of condoms to protect against HIV-AIDS in developing countries. More than any other Christian church or ecclesial community, 49 percent of Catholic physicians supported the statement, "Do you feel homosexuality is morally acceptable as a lifestyle choice?" Any evidence countering these statistics? LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 So what? Catholic morality does not proceed from the opinions of doctors but from the revealed Word of God. Sorry, but these statistics only mean that most Catholic doctors do not practice their faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 It's very convenient to survey "Catholics" who don't practice their faith. Why don't you conduct the same poll here on phatmass where we actually practice our faith? Of course, that would give an accurate picture of Catholic morality and we just can't have that now can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 [quote name='dUSt' date='Jun 20 2005, 08:49 AM']It's very convenient to survey "Catholics" who don't practice their faith. Why don't you conduct the same poll here on phatmass where we actually practice our faith? Of course, that would give an accurate picture of Catholic morality and we just can't have that now can we? [right][snapback]616712[/snapback][/right] [/quote] amen!. Preach it brother!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I don't know about the stats, but the tendency presented seems to be accurate. The question lies in the profession of the doctor vs their personnal beliefs. It is to be noted that a practising physician does not represent the church, and does not seek salvation of the souls of his patients. The primary duty of the physician is presevation of human life and health and human dignity. It is difficult, if not impossible for physicians at times to mend the catholic duty with their professional duty towards their patients. The best they can do is act, each by their own conscience. My father, a general practisionner for almost 40 years now, prescribed birth control. He also recommended condoms at times. Was he a good doctor - he was and still is mongst the best. Is he a good catholic, I believe he is. He is not perfect, but he remains a faithful catholic. When prescribing birth control, my father did not preach, but he would sometimes encourage his patients towards other, better means. That is just about the most that can be espected by a physician during the course of this functions. But in respect to patient-doctor relationship, my father could not find justification to deny an adult such a thing. Within that respect, he found it was the doctor's duty to respect the lifestyle of the patients. An analogous question can be posed: if the patient is openly homosexual, should the doctor stop treating his patient because of it? Or again, if the patient cannot or refuses to stop smoking, should the doctor stop treating his/her patient? It would seem that wether the doctor treats the patient or not, the doctor can be found in the wrong. Sometimes the only choice is the lesser of two evils? If not,what would you recommend? On a personnal level, my father always spoke out openly against homosexulaity, birth control, and EXPECIALLY ABORTIONS. To his view, a doctor taking ANY part towards an abortion was simply NOT A DOCTOR, since he betrayed the human life of an unborn child. A doctor cannot be a doctor without respecting human life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 also, some women take birth control for menstrual disorders, not to prevent pregnancy. In theese situations it would in fact be medically appropriate to take birth control pills if there were no other treatment options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 What is the point of this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jun 20 2005, 09:25 AM']also, some women take birth control for menstrual disorders, not to prevent pregnancy. In theese situations it would in fact be medically appropriate to take birth control pills if there were no other treatment options. [right][snapback]616731[/snapback][/right] [/quote] As one of those women who could take birth control for "menstrual disorders", yes, I've been told I could probably take them without guilt, however, keep in mind that birth control pills, shots, patches, what have you are still in fact abortificants - that is how those "medications" work. So, I do not take them. Period. There are alternative treatments, often doctors just give you what is easy - especially when they ask, "Are you trying to have children?" As for the stats on so-called Catholic doctors - so what Littleles. Those doctors may consider themselves Catholic, but at best the Catholic Church ultimately considers them to be BAD Catholics - if they are lucky enough to be considered still Catholic at all. The Catholic Church is not about what it's people believe - it's about what Jesus taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 What if the patient was not catholic or even christian? Should the doctor deny birth control then? Should the doctor deny treament? It is not the doctor's place to judge his/her patients...It is the doctor's place to offer them treatment. So what are you saying, that a doctor who prescribes birth control, even to a married couple be escommunicated? I find that rather harsh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Moral laws should be universally accepted and applied. If I believe birth control is wrong, I should NOT be encouraging others to use it in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 [quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jun 20 2005, 11:37 AM']As one of those women who could take birth control for "menstrual disorders", yes, I've been told I could probably take them without guilt, however, keep in mind that birth control pills, shots, patches, what have you are still in fact abortificants - that is how those "medications" work. So, I do not take them. Period. There are alternative treatments, often doctors just give you what is easy - especially when they ask, "Are you trying to have children?" As for the stats on so-called Catholic doctors - so what Littleles. Those doctors may consider themselves Catholic, but at best the Catholic Church ultimately considers them to be BAD Catholics - if they are lucky enough to be considered still Catholic at all. The Catholic Church is not about what it's people believe - it's about what Jesus taught. [right][snapback]616736[/snapback][/right] [/quote] but if you're not sexually active then it's OK to take them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Jun 20 2005, 09:58 AM']Moral laws should be universally accepted and applied. If I believe birth control is wrong, I should NOT be encouraging others to use it in any way. [right][snapback]616747[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I agree, however, is it the doctor's place to dictate morality to his/her patients? Moral law should be universally applied - of course it SHOULd, but the real world is different. Doctors don't necessarily promote contraceptives. The doctor can try to convince the patient of a different path, but if the patient remains on their decision then it is the doctor's duty to administer treatement for the patient. It is one of the most difficult things for a professional to discern between their functions and duties as a professional and their own religious beliefs. Confidentiality between a doctor and patient is parallel to confidentiality between a priest and someone who confesses. The respect of the patient from the physicien is paramount, and there remains that it is not the doctor's duty to preach to his/her patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jun 20 2005, 10:14 AM']but if you're not sexually active then it's OK to take them [right][snapback]616752[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Jun 20 2005, 08:44 AM']So what? Catholic morality does not proceed from the opinions of doctors but from the revealed Word of God. Sorry, but these statistics only mean that most Catholic doctors do not practice their faith. [right][snapback]616709[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Or could it mean that they recognize that the Church's teachings on these matters are in error and have elected to follow their own consciences rather than assent to error?? And can you quote me the biblical teaching against birth conntrol and the use of condoms to limit the spread of AIDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 [quote name='dUSt' date='Jun 20 2005, 08:49 AM']It's very convenient to survey "Catholics" who don't practice their faith. Why don't you conduct the same poll here on phatmass where we actually practice our faith? Of course, that would give an accurate picture of Catholic morality and we just can't have that now can we? [right][snapback]616712[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: Are you claiming that 90% of Catholic doctors don't practice their faith? Are Phatmass posters doctors? I suspected some may be members of Opus Dei from the mindset of their answers, but being physicians never occurred to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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