Mortal Sins?

[Aloysius]

I think this has all been quite a misunderstanding. no one was saying that because you're not Catholic your ideas don't matter, it was simply confusing from the first post as to whether or not you were Catholic wondering about what your own Church taught or if you were non Catholic asking us.

anyway, trust me, you can go all around the internet and you won't find a forum nicer than the one here. people out there get nasty.

ANYWAY, the debate has been continuing despite all the other stuff. we've presented our points, you've made assertions. we've refuted those assertions. you can rebuild them... offer evidence or some sound scriptural interpretation. but as it stands your main point that "Jesus equated all sins" stands refuted.

and the Catechism quotes were provided to clarify our position. You asked us for our position, we clarified. And at the very beginning no one was quite sure if you were a confused Catholic or a non-Catholic so if you were a confused Catholic then the Catechism would have been common ground. but regardless, the Catechism quotes are not proposed as evidence to you, merely to present what our position is. makes it clear-cut so you can show us where we are wrong if we are. then we also argued it scripturally. can you refute that point?

[jezic]

i woudl agree with Mikhail. The debate forum is essentially closed to honest debate.

As far as the question, sin is sin and yet certain things destroy the very grace of God at work in a soul. By consciously rejecting it, harm comes that is hard to undo. A mortal sin (fatal) is one that destroys this grace. It does so because of the nature of the offense and the choice of the soul.

The natural law of life would dictate that some thigns are more important than others. The natural instinct first and formost is to preserve life. This places a high importance on life itself. Life is at the heart of many mortal sins.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='jezic' date='Jun 18 2005, 10:51 PM']i woudl agree with Mikhail. The debate forum is essentially closed to honest debate.
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I don't see how this follows from what has been posted in this thread up to this point.

Clearly a thread which simply falls into proof texting is not a debate. I am quite willing to have a dialogue with Mikhail on the underlying presuppositions of the Catholic position on Scripture and scriptural interpretation, and his own presuppositions, but as a former Protestant myself, I have no real interest in an argument that simply degenerates into scriptural proof texting. Because that will prove absolutely nothing either way.

[Mikhail]

[quote]I think this has all been quite a misunderstanding. no one was saying that because you're not Catholic your ideas don't matter, it was simply confusing from the first post as to whether or not you were Catholic wondering about what your own Church taught or if you were non Catholic asking us.[/quote]

Aloysius, you seem to be one of the few respectful and coolheaded members on here. Thanks for that. When I start a debate, I will often just state the issue to be debated, and not my position to start out with. That would be the source for the confusion. I have posted before and made it obvious that I wasn't Catholic. I didn't think I had to make that apparent at the beginning of every post.

[quote]anyway, trust me, you can go all around the internet and you won't find a forum nicer than the one here. people out there get nasty.[/quote]

I'm sorry, I'll have to disagree with you. I personally own 4 forums, and am a member of many others. Yes you have to screen which ones you come on since there are many bad ones out there. However, this forum has not been a good forum experience. You should get out more.

I have no desire to continue this debate here for two reasons. People like you who treat other people with respect and are open to honest debate are not worth the nasty experiences. Also, the fact that I am going to be overwhelmed with responses to my every post and am going to get little support, make me hesitant to post. I debate for fun and only come on here when I'm bored. However, as I said, as soon as I set up the debate forum I'll post a link and anyone from here who is interested can join and do it there.

Also, as you may have noted, Miriam (dudette) and I have a personal history and I'm not on here for confrontation.

Apotheoun, you would think someone who has seen the "truth" wouldn't be so closeminded and judgemental. Also, it would seem you would be a little more understanding of people who don't believe exactly like you. If you aren't interested in debating it with me, no one asked you to post on thread. You could simply walk away.

[Aloysius]

okay, I just re-read through the thread. no one attacked you personally, though one person critiqued your debating style (apparently you two have history? I'll ignore that)

you asked about mortal sin
Apotheoun answered about what mortal sin is
Cam showed what the CCC had to say and provided another scriptural support
you responded that you disagree, provided a few opinions about scripture
everyone responded to these points
Apotheoun simply commented that we have different ways of viewing scripture.
You came out claiming that we were all being bigoted and not allowing you to debate et cetera et cetera
then jezic apparently declared the forum closed to honest debate

I cannot see your problem with either Apotheoun or Cam. They both merely tried to respond to you by ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION. Then, they attempted to argue against you with logic. Of course we'd bring up the different ways both of us view scripture, because that's an important issue in any debate that is about to hit a point where we disagree about what scripture means.

And how is he "closeminded and judgemental"? That is an unabashed personal attack with no basis in the posts he has made on this thread. If you're offended that he called you "protestant", sorry but you two have differing views on what the term means (yours is not exactly the mainstream view in the world of what the term "protestant" means). If you're offended that he brought up the fact that we interpret scripture differently, well, we do don't we?

You gave opinion about what the scripture means and declared it as fact. Now in a logical debate you would have to provide some evidence as to why that scripture means that.

Anyway, if you're leaving, good riddens (this is what I say to anyone that posts that they are leaving). We showed you nothing except an opposing argument on this thread.

[Cam42]

[quote]you asked about mortal sin
Apotheoun answered about what mortal sin is
Cam showed what the CCC had to say and provided another scriptural support
you responded that you disagree, provided a few opinions about scripture
everyone responded to these points
Apotheoun simply commented that we have different ways of viewing scripture.
You came out claiming that we were all being bigoted and not allowing you to debate et cetera et cetera
then jezic apparently declared the forum closed to honest debate[/quote]

AHEM.....IS THIS THING ON? ATTENTION!!!!!!!

This is a classic example of a straw man fallacy. For one who claims to be a....

[quote] student of debate and there is a proper form a debating.[/quote]

He doesn't understand that a fallacy is not an acceptable way of debating. Thanks for the point by point, Al, you clarified the position.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Mikhail' date='Jun 19 2005, 02:31 AM'][. . .]
Apotheoun, you would think someone who has seen the "truth" wouldn't be so closeminded and judgemental. Also, it would seem you would be a little more understanding of people who don't believe exactly like you. If you aren't interested in debating it with me, no one asked you to post on thread. You could simply walk away.
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I think you see aggression where there is none intended, but perhaps that is only your rhetorical style. As I indicated in my previous post, I am more than happy to have a dialogue on the presuppositions underlying our respective positions. But what I am not interested in a doing is having a so-called "debate" that is nothing more than a tit for tat throwing out of texts of Sacred Scripture with each of us giving our respective and divergent interpretations to them, and in the process accomplishing nothing.

Now as far as being closed minded is concerned, if I were truly closed minded I would never have converted to Catholicism in the first place, nor would my theological views have moved from Thomism to Palamism over the last three years, but then as G. K. Chesterton once said, "Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid. Otherwise, it could end up like a city sewer, rejecting nothing."