Melchisedec Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jun 16 2005, 12:51 PM']"Luckily we have become far more civilized today" Athiesm does not 'protect' man from stupidity. It has in fact been shown to enhance it. The lack of respect for the dignity of each person to live as their own free beings has been violated by athiesm far more than any religion. [right][snapback]613391[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Someone who believes in talking snakes lecturing to me about stupidity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Technicoid' date='Jun 16 2005, 12:25 PM']Given your conclusion you must've either misread what you posted, or you must be inviting us to misread it. [right][snapback]613365[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Response: Pius X, Praestantia Sacrae Scripturae (1907): "Wherefore we find it necessary to declare and to expressly prescribe, and by this our act we do declare and decree that all are BOUND IN CONSCIENCE TO SUBMIT TO THE DECISIONS of the Biblical Commission relating to doctrine, which have been given in the past and which shall be given in the future, in the same way as to the decrees of the Roman congregations approved by the Pontiff; nor can all those escape the note of disobedience or temerity, and consequently of grave sin, who in speech or writing contradict such decisions, and this besides the scandal they give and the other reasons for which they may be responsible before God for other temerities and errors which generally go with such contradictions" PBC "On the Historical Character of the First Three Chapters of Genesis: " III. In particular MAY THE LITERAL HISTORICAL SENSE BE CALLED IN DOUBT in the case of facts narrated in the same chapters which touch the foundations of the Christian religion: as are, among others, the creation of all things by God in the beginning of time; the special creation of man; the formation of the first woman from the first man; the unity of the human race; the original felicity of our first parents in the state of justice, integrity, and immortality; the command given by God to man to test his obedience; THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE DIVINE COMMAND AT THE INSTIGATION OF THE DEVIL UNDER TO FORM OF A SERPENT; the degradation of our first parents from that primeval state of innocence; and the promise of a future Redeemer? Answer: IN THE NEGATIVE. Then I concluded : "In sum, Catholics are all "bound in conscience" to accept that Eve was literally tempted the devil in the form of a serpent." What precisely are you claiming I misinterpreted or misposted? I've capitalized the key phrases leading to my conclusion. You can find both documents on the web or in history books if you want to check the accuracy of these two quotations. (Actually they are cut and pastes from the web). LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 16 2005, 12:33 PM'] God wills the absolute annilation of untruth, as He is Truth and all that is untrue is Contrary to Him. So, the destruction of all Untrue religions would coincide with His Divine Will. [/quote] Response: Are you serious? Scary if you really believe that. But you would not be alone. I think we are presently engaged in a war with some groups that hold that same view. Of course, the Church once did too. That's why we had the Crusades. LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Didacus' date='Jun 16 2005, 01:03 PM']You see, I read that paragraph and I understand that the first three books of Genesis are methaphorical in nature. The metaphore pertains to history, sure, I can accept that, but it remains a metaphore. Metaphores can be stretched quite a bit from factual truth. Adam and Eve could metaphorically represent a group of persons, whose's story is told from two central characters? Maybe the serpant was just a metaphore for Eve's thoughts and there was no serpant at all, but the story was "adapted to the mentality of a people but little cultured" by using "simple and metaphorical" language; aka the story was given a snake as a metaphore so it would be easier to understand for the people of the time. [right][snapback]613399[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The idea that Adam and Eve represent a group of persons (polygenism) has been condemned as heresy by the Church. Adam and Eve represent an actual original man and woman from whom the human race is descended. The serpent represents Satan. Whether Satan actually appeared as a snake, or whether he is poetically represented as a snake is open to interpretation. The sepent does not merely represent Eve's thoughts, but the devil (an actual person). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jun 16 2005, 12:57 PM']True. And note that atheistic Communist governments have murdered far more people than Christian governments. Th idea that the world will become all nice and peaceful if we all just embrace atheism is a lot of garbage. [right][snapback]613395[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Beg to differ. No one claims the world would be peaceful without religion. But we know that it would be safer without religious zealots out to kill anyone who doesn't believe in their God. What we do know is the world isn't any better with bible toting Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 16 2005, 01:15 PM']Response: Are you serious? Scary if you really believe that. But you would not be alone. I think we are presently engaged in a war with some groups that hold that same view. Of course, the Church once did too. That's why we had the Crusades. LittleLes [right][snapback]613411[/snapback][/right] [/quote] We had the Crusades to take back the Holy Land from the fanatical Muslim Turks who invaded and oppressed the Christians there, and did not allow Christian pilgrims safe passage to visit the Holy Land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 16 2005, 01:15 PM']Response: Are you serious? Scary if you really believe that. But you would not be alone. I think we are presently engaged in a war with some groups that hold that same view. Of course, the Church once did too. That's why we had the Crusades. LittleLes [right][snapback]613411[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You bet its scary, its absolutely insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 16 2005, 12:23 PM'] I take it very seriously, error does not exist in the Scriptures, not any error, what is Historical and what is not has nothing to do with what is True and what is not. Response: Your reasoning here is obviously flawed. What is historical and what is not has nothing to do with what is true and what is not? Do you really maintain that position? For the sake of argument, lets say that the existence of Jesus Christ is not historical. Would this then have nothing to do with what is true regarding the New Testament? Come now. LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jun 16 2005, 01:16 PM']Beg to differ. No one claims the world would be peaceful without religion. But we know that it would be safer without religious zealots out to kill anyone who doesn't believe in their God. What we do know is the world isn't any better with bible toting Christians. [right][snapback]613413[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Nothing wrong with "Bible-toting Christians." Get over yourself and your prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jun 16 2005, 01:19 PM']You bet its scary, its absolutely insane. [right][snapback]613419[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If we're so insane why are you still here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jun 16 2005, 01:24 PM']Nothing wrong with "Bible-toting Christians." Get over yourself and your prejudice. [right][snapback]613428[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Nothing wrong with Atheist. Get over yourself and your prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jun 16 2005, 12:44 PM']The point is basicly that the church is a killer. There is no reason why a person should not be allowed to live freely and believe in what they choose to. Your post summarizes the evils of zealots whom kill and seek dominance in the name of their mythical God. Luckily we have become far more civilized today. I dont see why an almighty God could not remove those unbelievers without the help of lunatics. [right][snapback]613383[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Response: I more or less agree with your post. However, the part about being allowed to live freely and believe in what they choose is contrary to Catholic teaching. At least is was in 1864. The following statement was condemned by Pius IX in his famous Syllabus of Errors. 15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851. LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Jun 16 2005, 02:03 PM']Someone who believes in talking snakes lecturing to me about stupidity [right][snapback]613400[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Someone who believes in murdering their own children and enslaving non-whites talking to me about stupidity. Goes both ways buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jun 16 2005, 01:27 PM']If we're so insane why are you still here? [right][snapback]613433[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Someone must be reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jun 16 2005, 01:32 PM']Someone who believes in murdering their own children and enslaving non-whites talking to me about stupidity. Goes both ways buddy. [right][snapback]613439[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Huh? Are you blaming slavery on atheism? We eat our babies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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