another try at spanking poll

[jmjtina]

Pain not right?

What kind of pain are you talking about? We are talking about the disipline of children left to the parents, [b][u][i]not bodily harm or abuse[/i][/u][/b]. Yet it does happen, I understand. But there is also spousal abuse. Should we forbid people to get married?

Let's not use scripture out of context. You state: " All bitterness, fury, anger, shouting, and reviling must be removed from you, along with all malice. (And) be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another as God has forgiven you in Christ. "

yet go a few more verses down and what happens if you don't follow the above? Well, you will suffer the [b][u][i]wrath of God [/i][/u][/b]and not share in the kingdom of God. ( Eph. 5:5-6 ) In other words, you go to Hell.

There are MANY examples of disipline that God allows to happen, worse than getting a spanking, did you happen to miss those? There are MANY prayers asking for God's Mercy as well. Does he do it out of spite and malice like the mythical heathen gods and goddesses?

There are good parents out there (not perfect, who is?) but good parents who love thier children and use the disipline as best as they see fit. Corporal punishment is one way of disiplining. Not all corporal punishment is bad. It is not all is good either. But to take away the right to disipline is a direct attack on the family, something society had done it's best to tear down.

God Bless.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='Jun 16 2005, 01:11 AM']Pain not right?

What kind of pain are you talking about? We are talking about the disipline of children left to the parents, [b][u][i]not bodily harm or abuse[/i][/u][/b]. Yet it does happen, I understand.  But there is also spousal abuse.  Should we forbid people to get married?

Let's not use scripture out of context. You state: " All bitterness, fury, anger, shouting, and reviling must be removed from you, along with all malice. (And) be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another as God has forgiven you in Christ. "

yet go a few more verses down and what happens if you don't follow the above? Well, you will suffer the [b][u][i]wrath of God [/i][/u][/b]and not share in the kingdom of God. ( Eph. 5:5-6 ) In other words, you go to Hell.

There are MANY examples of disipline that God allows to happen, worse than getting a spanking, did you happen to miss those?  There are MANY prayers asking for God's Mercy as well. Does he do it out of spite and malice like the mythical heathen gods and goddesses?[/quote]


That was awesome.

[Tony]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='Jun 16 2005, 02:11 AM']Pain not right?

What kind of pain are you talking about? We are talking about the disipline of children left to the parents, [b][u][i]not bodily harm or abuse[/i][/u][/b]. Yet it does happen, I understand.  But there is also spousal abuse.  Should we forbid people to get married?

Let's not use scripture out of context. You state: " All bitterness, fury, anger, shouting, and reviling must be removed from you, along with all malice. (And) be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another as God has forgiven you in Christ. "

yet go a few more verses down and what happens if you don't follow the above? Well, you will suffer the [b][u][i]wrath of God [/i][/u][/b]and not share in the kingdom of God. ( Eph. 5:5-6 ) In other words, you go to Hell.

There are MANY examples of disipline that God allows to happen, worse than getting a spanking, did you happen to miss those?  There are MANY prayers asking for God's Mercy as well. Does he do it out of spite and malice like the mythical heathen gods and goddesses?

There are good parents out there (not perfect, who is?) but good parents who love thier children and use the disipline as best as they see fit. Corporal punishment is one way of disiplining.  Not all corporal punishment is bad.  It is not all is good either. But to take away the right to disipline is a direct attack on the family, something society had done it's best to tear down. 

God Bless.
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Ironic before I even read this, I was thinking about this.. in a way you are right.. in a way.. I didnt even read that scriptture you just mentioned (the few verses after) but yet it reaches my setitments or whatvert you want to call them

see.. when you swat a kid.. they are usually punished on the spot.. no time for forgivnes as all.. does Christ jolt us with a lightning bolt every time we do wrong? nope.. so nor should we Don't forge God does have the ability to strike us with lightning bolts if he thought it was right, but thats never happened. He gives us much time to ask for forgivnes, and doesnt beat the tar out of you to get it. Ofcourse when we pass on.. its a different story... but heck, there might be some parents waiting on the other side too, following Christ's ways and giving us that same amoint of time Christ gives to seek forgivness (which we would end up doing in Purgatory if not sooner.. unless it was a Mortal sin, then scratch the Purgatory ) wow this is deeper than I thought it would be..

Definatly pray your kids do get the wisdom though

[Tony]

on a lighter note.. wount a more effective punishment be to make them listen to Yoko Ono?

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Tony' date='Jun 16 2005, 02:06 AM']Ironic before I  even read this, I was thinking about this.. in a way you are right.. in a way..  I didnt even read that scriptture you just mentioned (the few verses after) but yet it reaches my setitments or whatvert you want to call them

see.. when you swat a kid..  they are usually  punished on the spot.. no time for forgivnes as all.. does Christ jolt us with a lightning bolt every time we do wrong? nope.. so nor should we  Don't forge God does have the ability to strike us with lightning bolts if he thought it was right, but thats never happened.  He gives us much time to ask for forgivnes, and doesnt beat the tar out of you to get it. Ofcourse when we pass on.. its a different story... but heck, there might be some parents waiting on the other side too, following Christ's ways and giving us that same amoint of time Christ gives  to seek forgivness  (which we would end up doing in Purgatory if not sooner.. unless it was a Mortal sin, then scratch the Purgatory )  wow this is deeper than I thought it would be..

Definatly pray your kids do get the wisdom though
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Forgivenesss and punishment are completly unrelated, God forgives you for your sins but you must still be punished for them, penace doesn't involve much punishmentthese days which leads me to think moderns will be spending a bit more time in purgatory than those of the past. , but that is a differant issue. God punishes you for EVERY sin. EVERY ONE. Purgatory is not just a waiting room but a place of positive punishment for your sins.

[Good Friday]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja']This could be considered a personal attack on every parent here who has ever spanked a child. And it's just plain rude and uninformed. A theory created to release the anger of frustrated parents? Right. Whatever. Have a nice day.[/quote]
I've got to agree with Kilroy. It's fine to disagree with spanking, but it's not fine to say that spanking was "created" -- I'd love for you tell me when, precisely, it was created -- for parents to release their anger. That's just not the case. I've known parents who absolutely hate to spank their children but do it anyway when they misbehave because no other punishment seems to work, and they are therefore doing it for the children's own good.

I think you crossed the line by practically indicting every parent who has ever spanked his or her children. What you say about them just isn't the case.

[PedroX]

Spanking can be, and is, done correctly by the majority of parents. Spanking is not designed for parents to release their anger, but rather to draw an immediate and concrete connection for the child between the wrong act and the consequences of said act. I have even read behavioral theorist who suggest spanking teenagers is more just than grounding because of its immediacy and because it allows for immediate reconciliation between parent and child.

Lastly, those who argue from a misplaced vision of mercy need to go back and read Don John's statements on Purgatory. All sin is punished, and we must be purified of it before going into heaven. Would you not save your child from more time in Purgatory?

same as I ever was...

peace...

[Tony]

I know this is getting way off topic.. but.. .. if you go to confession, and complete whatever pennance is given.. doesnt that serve as the punishment for those particular sins in fulll?

[philothea]

No... that's what indulgences do. (Or, penance, or personal suffering... maybe.)

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Tony' date='Jun 16 2005, 05:34 PM']I know this is getting way off topic.. but.. .. if  you go to confession, and complete whatever pennance is given..  doesnt that serve as the punishment for those particular sins in fulll?
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As Philothea said no--- one can never know if all of ones punishment has been metted out, You can be annointed right before you die and unless you where a really good boy or you earned some extraordinary ammout of Merit you are probably going to end up in Purgation at least for a while.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='Tony' date='Jun 16 2005, 04:34 PM']I know this is getting way off topic.. but.. .. if  you go to confession, and complete whatever pennance is given..  doesnt that serve as the punishment for those particular sins in fulll?
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No.

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/purgatory.asp"]The Catechism of the Catholic Church [/url]defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1031).

The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.

Edited June 16, 2005 by jmjtina

[popestpiusx]

By government do you mean state or fed? Also, do you mean authority in the legal or moral sense? I said no, but would need to clarify those terms. The govenment has no legal nor moral right to ban spanking. In fact, from the moral standpoint, they should be encouraging it.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 19 2005, 08:41 PM']By government do you mean state or fed? Also, do you mean authority in the legal or moral sense?  I said no, but would need to clarify those terms.  The govenment has no legal nor moral right to ban spanking.  In fact, from the moral standpoint, they should be encouraging it.
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I knew that you would support spanking.

It's good to see our phishy friend is posting again.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 19 2005, 11:54 PM']I knew that you would support spanking.  [/quote]

Of course.

[quote]It's good to see our phishy friend is posting again.
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I have little time these days.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 19 2005, 10:41 PM']By government do you mean state or fed? Also, do you mean authority in the legal or moral sense?  I said no, but would need to clarify those terms.  The govenment has no legal nor moral right to ban spanking.  In fact, from the moral standpoint, they should be encouraging it.
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I don't think it matters from an authority point of view it would be anygovernment anywhere.