The Old Mass

[hyperdulia again]

Just to clarify, there is nothing wrong in and of itsself with preferring the Tridentine Mass; so long as your personal preference for the old way of doing things (communion on the tongue, while kneeling, the Gregorian Chant, etc) doesn't make you think that the Church apostasized by changing the order of the Mass (which is certainly something that She has the right to do since the old order was instituted by Her). To cure the rather troublesome problem of schistrads all that is needed is for bishops to take the Holy Father's advice and be generous with indults (also I imagine that if Liturgical abuses were taken more seriously by Bishops a lot of the fuel for the traditionalist fires would go away). Also I'd like to point out that the Mass in America is very different from the Mass the Council Fathers had in mind---in this country there is for the most part no use of Latin/Chant in Novus Ordo parishes and from what I've heard some priests aren't even basically proficient in the language of the Church.

I luckily live in a part of my diocese where a number of parishes offer at least one Mass in Latin a month. I personally like the Tridentine Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin more than I like any other Mass (excepting the Byzantine funeral Mass which is so beautiful it'd make you cry), but if Holy Mother Church were to announce tomorrow that Mass should be said in Swahili and we should recieve communion while standing upside down, I would do it.

Edited July 15, 2003 by hyperdulia again

[Kilroy the Ninja]

I agree with you Hyper in that if the Bishops would take care of the abuses there wouldn't be so much fuel for the fire. But part of the problem are many of the Bishops themselves. Many of them are encouraging the abuses. What really needs to happen is for the Holy See to come down on the Bishops.

[hyperdulia again]

That's true Kilroy, but there is a serious crisis of Authority in the Church today, the Bishops don't quake in fear at the thought of Papal Censure. Priests don't quake in fear of Bishops. We don't quake in fear of priests. It's very sad.

"Let them hate so long as they obey."---Pius V

[jasJis]

I agree with you too Hyper. And I certainly don't feel the call to change the Bishop or the Church. There are certain things I don't agree with or am comfortable with, but in obedience, I do. That is also why I teach confirmation. Adult Catholics should not learn about the Church so they can decide what's wrong with it, but to learn about the abundant Graces and Truth that's in the Church. Poor catechisis is the core of the problem.

My favorite Mass is the weekday noon Mass downtown in a beautiful church that looks like a mini-cathedral. It's small, the 30 or 40 people there are there to worship God. It's so intimate and communal at the same time. The only song is during communion and at departure. There's something about sharing time with God with others when it isn't our Sunday obligation.

[hyperdulia again]

Very true jasJis, very true.

[Jonle]

I find some of the stuff Hyper complains about disturbing, because the primary reason I'm joining the Catholic Church is because of its "sameness" everywhere, the authoritative claims it makes, and what I supposed to be the obedience of clergy and laity to its teachings. Lack of obedience more than anything else is why I left my former denomination.

[dUSt]

I find some of the stuff Hyper complains about disturbing, because the primary reason I'm joining the Catholic Church is because of its "sameness" everywhere, the authoritative claims it makes, and what I supposed to be the obedience of clergy and laity to its teachings.  Lack of obedience more than anything else is why I left my former denomination.

"Lack of obedience" means separating oneself from the Church--so have no fear, the Church will remain unchanged and unified.

[hyperdulia again]

Submission and resignation to the will of the Church are much easier than sacrifice (and the self-proclaimed martyrdom that goes along with it) and rebellion (which leads straight to Hell).