Can't wait for Papal Action

[Aloysius]

so wait... if his miracles were all in order... what becomes the status of them if he is not cannonized? were the miracles then not real? or not really because of his intercession? or can we assume he is in heaven but that he is not to be a popular saint?

[Good Friday]

[quote name='Aloysius']so wait... if his miracles were all in order... what becomes the status of them if he is not cannonized? were the miracles then not real? or not really because of his intercession? or can we assume he is in heaven but that he is not to be a popular saint?[/quote]
I really don't know, but I'd assume if he is not beatified that we cannot assume he is in Heaven, regardless of the miracles. What concerns me is that this whole thing calls into question his "heroic virtue" and whether or not his writings were "free of error," prerequisities for being declared venerable, which I presume has already been done since he was on his way to beatification.

It's quite a pickle. I'm sure the Holy See will figure out the best way to go; I loved Pope John Paul II, but I'm much more confident in Pope Benedict XVI's administrative capabilities since he was prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

[LittleLes]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jun 19 2005, 12:24 PM']so wait... if his miracles were all in order... what becomes the status of them if he is not cannonized?  were the miracles then not real?  or not really because of his intercession?  or can we assume he is in heaven but that he is not to be a popular saint?
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RESPONSE:

You raise some interesting questions. These might require a reassessment of the entire beatification and canonization process.

[Cam42]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 19 2005, 11:57 AM']Yes, it will be interesting to observe Papal action in the case of Fr. Leon DeHon.

Pope John Paul II was big on canonizations having performed more than all his predecessors put together. Founders of religious movements were almost sure to be canonized.

Fr. Leon DeHon, who founded the Priests of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, evidently had his prerequisite miracles, and was about to be beatified. But  then Pope John Paul died.

This has created an immediate problem for Pope Benedict XVI.

"In a highly unusual move, Pope Benedict XVI has suspended the planned beatification of the French priest while the Vatican investigates allegations of anti-Semitism in his writings, including one that called the Jewish holy book the "manual of the bandit, corruptor, social destroyer." Dehon's case is even more remarkable because he likely would have been beatified had Pope John Paul II lived a few weeks longer."

More interesting still is that some members of the clergy's consciences would not "assent to the Church" and support his beatification.

It will be interesting to see Papal action in this case.
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This has nothing to do with that....stop spamming.....bad form.

[LittleLes]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jun 19 2005, 05:57 PM']This has nothing to do with that....stop spamming.....bad form.
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RESPONSE:

I believe the title of the thread is "Can't wait for Papal action." The Dehon matter is the first crisis Pope Boniface XVI has to deal with. We are anxious to see how he'll handle it. In effect, it is a major oversight occuring on his predecessor's watch.

And for those who are questioning the source of this report, it's from the Catholic News Service, Vatican, from which our diocesan newspapers (everybody reads those each week, right?) get their Rome report. It was on page two our Catholic Sentinel here. I condensed it, but quoted pretty much verbatim.

And it appears that at least two moderators on this form can't accept these facts and have closed down the threads containing them. Who said that Catholic censorship ended with the Index of Forbidden Books!

I'd be frankly curious where they think antisemitism got started.

LittleLes

[Cam42]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 19 2005, 07:46 PM']RESPONSE:

I believe the title of the thread is "Can't wait for Papal action." The Dehon matter is the first crisis Pope Boniface XVI has to deal with. We  are anxious to see how he'll handle it. In effect, it is a major oversight occuring on his predecessor's watch.

And for those who are questioning the source of this report, it's from the Catholic News Service, Vatican, from which our diocesan newspapers (everybody reads those each week, right?) get their Rome report. It was on page two our Catholic Sentinel here. I condensed it, but quoted pretty much verbatim.

And it appears that at least two moderators on this form can't accept these facts and have closed down the threads containing them. Who said that Catholic censorship ended with the Index of Forbidden Books!

I'd be frankly curious where they think antisemitism got started.

LittleLes
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Who is pope Boniface.....one of your anti-popes? Haven't you figured out that anti-Semitism is a no go as far as topics are concerned...I would suggest that you stop.

[LittleLes]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jun 19 2005, 08:27 PM']

  Haven't you figured out that anti-Semitism is a no go as far as topics are concerned...I would suggest that you stop.
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RESPONSE:

I think the answer should be obvious. Some posters and moderators cannot accept the facts of histroy if these evidence that the institutional Church has been in error in the past (or present).

And, of couse, this proves that your assertion: "First off let me say, this idea of primacy of conscience is erroneous. We are not to follow our conscience in all things, but we are to assent our will to the Church, then our conscience will be rightly formed." can lead to serious error.

Conscience has primacy, not assent.

But, curiously, they can admit Pope John Paul II's (rather incomplete) appology for such an error, thereby acknowledging that it existed. Of course, this admission by Pope John is public knowledge and really impossible to deny.

But its in the news again because of the Catholic New Service article on the halting of the beatification of Fr. Leon DeHon which has been published nationally ( and is now on Netscape news as well) as is Pope Benedicts' rethinking of Catholic policy toward the Jews.

Little Les

[Cam42]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Jun 20 2005, 07:53 AM']RESPONSE:

I think the answer should be obvious. Some posters and moderators cannot accept the facts of histroy if these evidence that the institutional Church has been in error in the past (or present).

And, of couse, this proves  that your assertion:  "First off let me say, this idea of primacy of conscience is erroneous. We are not to follow our conscience in all things, but we are to assent our will to the Church, then our conscience will be rightly formed."  can lead to serious error.

Conscience has primacy, not assent.

But, curiously, they can admit Pope John Paul II's (rather incomplete) appology for such an error, thereby acknowledging that it existed. Of course, this admission by Pope John is public knowledge and really impossible to deny.

But its in the news again because of the Catholic New Service article on the halting of the beatification of Fr. Leon DeHon which has been published nationally  ( and is now on Netscape news as well) as is Pope Benedicts' rethinking of Catholic policy toward the Jews.

Little Les
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And that topic was closed for a reason..... I won't discuss it again.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Please keep this thread on topic - re-hashing of closed threads will not be tolerated here.

God Bless.

Edited June 20, 2005 by Kilroy the Ninja

[Cam42]

[quote name='conservativecatholic' date='Jun 18 2005, 11:54 AM']Our youth director recently proposed the idea of having a Youth Mass celebrated at our parish so that we could "rock out" on Sunday. The Mass would have drums, guitars, tambourines, electric pianos, and a whole other gang of musical instruments that are so appealing to the youth's ears! (sarcasm) 

The thing that stumped us though was the director's motive to propose a Youth Mass. We attended Mass on a regular basis anyway. We had developed an affinity for traditional worship with organs and latin motets that embodied nothing but the Eucharist. So why a contemporary Youth Mass? It turned out that only a few adults who were all in a "liturgically liberal" christian band of the parish desired to "jam" at Mass, not the youth!

Nearly our entire confirmation class was infuriated about our director's reference to the liturgy as a rock concert... so we visited our pastor. It was a very interesting conversation. It turned out that he wasn't very fond of creating "specialty Masses" for certain age groups or races. He just liked cleberating the Mass as it is. So everything turned out A-OK!
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Sounds like your pastor is more in line with the post-Marini Liturgical dynasty impending within the Church. Seems like Benedict XVI, will be more like Pius XII and less like John Paul II. Praise God.

[marboniface]

Reading over the posts on this thread, it seems that the topic has been side-tracked by some (cf. Cam42).

I have no idea what Pope Benedict will do in regards to the liturgy - he may do nothing, but I think that is unlikely - but I am just hoping that he will do something.
In particular I hope that he will 'take the brakes off' the latin Mass movement.

Marboniface

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
6/28 - St. Iranaeus of Lyons
[quote name='mulls' date='Jun 15 2005, 02:27 PM']action, eh?
i personally would like to see him do the robot, or maybe some poppin' and lockin'
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Sounds like a good start. I'd like to see some break-dancing, though.