Noel's angel Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 He said 'universally' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IesusDeus Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 (edited) I think that the following quote from one Church father says it all: [b]"If you enroll as one of God's people, heaven is your country and God your lawgiver. And what are God's laws? You shall not kill, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. To him that strikes you on the one cheek, turn to him the other also." - Clement of Alexandria, an early church father, in Protrepticus, 10"[/b] Heaven of my country FIRST and FOREMOST. And I follow God laws FIRST and FOREMOST. I am under the authority of God FIRST and FOREMOST. If a national law goes against the laws of God, I shoud choose "God over nation" ANY TIME even if it is being "un-patriotic". Edited June 11, 2005 by IesusDeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 all patriotism means, as we have already said, is loving your homeland and your culture. it is virtuous. patrioitism doesn't mean following unjust laws. it really doesn't have much to do with the law.I liked that quote from GKC... who said that earlier? "my country right or wrong is the same as my mother drunk or sober". It's loving the country, nothing to do with agreeing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IesusDeus Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 When you are Christian, "[i]heaven[/i]" is your country. Your country is FIRST and FOREMOST [b]HEAVEN[/b] The quote again:[quote]"If you enroll as one of God's people, heaven is your country and God your lawgiver."[/quote] At least it is for me. (And St Clement.) I understand if you do not see the same way. I cannot change your faith or belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 you're misusing that quote. you have a country, a heritage, a culture, a community... you ought to love it. it has nothing to do with what you think of the state. nationalism is not patriotism. JPII had a love of Poland... that was patriotism. That means nothing other than love of your homeland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 when is patriotism a virtue?-When it is interpreted correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IesusDeus Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Yes I love them. I am not saying that you should not love your culture, etc... It is a question of priorities. What comes first. Let me put it this way. I am closer to a brother in Christ who has a iraqi passport, than a canadian/american who is an atheist. I love heaven more than I love my country. (Heaven is my first country.) And I love mankind more than I love canadians / american / french / ... I do not put barriers in my love. I understand the differences, but I try to love like God does without limitation. It is not easy. But we are caled to be perfect like God. For me a human being is foremost who he or she is globally, than is passport or culture. Against it is a question of priorities. I cherish my country and my culture, but I am also open (and I love) other countries and cultures. Patriotism is wrong when it is limiting or when it is not loving, or when it is pride. (One of the seven deadly sins BTW.) Too often, I see pride in patriotism. (The rest of the world see a lot of pride in americans. Why is that?) Pride is a deadly sin. Humility is a virtue... We need more humility.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IesusDeus Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Let me put it another way: Who(which) do we love more God or our country? If I say my country I have broken God's first commandment. God comes first, always. We need to love God more than everything. What is the second most important commandment? To love one another like Jesus loves us. If my patriotism brings me into not loving one another, than it is not good. Period. What comes first is the love of God, than the love of others. Only after those two commandments, can you add love of your culture, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Patriotism doesn't mean that you love your country over God-of course God comes before all else, but you can still love your country and your culture. People love eachother, but it doesn't mean that we love God any less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 11 2005, 07:24 PM']it is in america. [right][snapback]609279[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What America thinks of Irish nationhood is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 who are you talking about that doesn't accept the tricolors? unionists? I mean, if they want to they can accept the four little red lines on the union jack as representative of Ireland... but I'd rather Ireland have its own flag. also, I like the Erin Go Braugh flag better anyway... with the harp and all. I'm a trad Irish Republican who was born and raised in America because of a little potato famine way back when... I long for the good old days when Sinn Fein actually worked for Catholic social justice.. Rerum Novarum style and all that... ah, but I digress... I actually think it ought to be something the Irish in Ireland are proud of, that we are almost the only ones not defeated by the American melting pot and still care about the place of our ethnic origins after so many generations. yes, ID, priority wise it is better. but loving something doesn't exclude anything... so me saying you should love your country and culture doesn't exclude putting God above it. but on earth, in the natural way humans work, we ought to band together in groups that look after one another. I am no nationalist... I am actually looking into a theory of mine that micro-nationalism is a response to all the mayhem left in the ruins of Christendom and that if there were Catholic micro-nationalists we could attempt to rebuild western civilization... but patriotism doesn't mean nationalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jun 12 2005, 05:50 AM']What America thinks of Irish nationhood is irrelevant. [right][snapback]609605[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Rely I don't think so we have been funding Irish rebellion for over a hundred years now, when The IRA needs money, they can always find money in america, ALWAYS. sounds pretty relevant to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I'm not sure RandomProddy is a fan of the rebellion? I could be wrong... we really shouldn't be opening up that can of worms. :ph34r: anyway, I'm almost positive she's no fan of the current IRA... so yeah... that could get ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Fan or not it is simply ignorant of reallity to say that " What America thinks of Irish nationhood is irrelevant." It is american Money that funded irish Nationhood, it is American Money that continues to support it, That IS relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I didnt have time to read the whole thread, so hopefully i'm not beating a dead horse. [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Jun 2 2005, 08:17 PM']Seconding Socartes's statement, I'm sorry I cannot remember where the Church made that statement. However, it's a virtue. It can be corrupted in many ways (thinking your nation is perfect (not possible), or thinking your country is more favored by God (Americanism)). However, it is still a virtue, and you can tell that when a man is not patriotic, he is also not very faithful and obedient. I'm not saying those who don't love their country are bad, but lacking any virtue is just one more weak spot for senior Satan and the demonic gang. God bless, Mikey [right][snapback]605907[/snapback][/right] [/quote] How do you know God does not favor America? He has showered blessing upon blessing on our country. in 200 years we went from peons to the greatest nation ever. Prove your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now