crazy protestant quotes

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

thats not true. Is their not a catholic in your town?
if you know what the Catholic Church is you are responsibile.
as long as a person has a bible and has heard the Words Catholic Church than they have enough knowledge.

Edited June 3, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[Aloysius]

the Church teaches that to be culpable there must be three things

(1) grave matter, this is grave matter
(2) full consent of the will
(3) full knowledge that it is wrong

you are not competant to judge her soul. nor am I and thus I don't presume either way (though those who are born into it are considered likely less culpable if not completely inculpable). just because there are Catholics around doesn't mean she fully knows it's wrong (* this doesn't have to be explicit intellectual knowledge it is wrong, the soul knows what is right and wrong) or that she has rejected it with the full force and power of her god given will.


young padawan, you have much to learn. YES- trumpet the dogma EENS from the hilltops... but you must understand it in its full traditional understanding. What I have presented is nothing new, go through my posts-- there is not one concept in them that cannot be found in magisterial teaching pre-vatican ii (I do this for your sake).

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

im not judging a pacticular person but im trying to define the word "ignorance".

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Are their any radical "traditionalists" on phatmass?

[homeschoolmom]

So... do you know everything about the Hindu religion? Certainly there's a Hindu in your city. But you probably would say, "No, I don't. But I don't have to know everything about Hinduism because Hinduism isn't true."

To which I would say, "that's the way most Protestants feel about Catholism." Why bother to learn about something you believe to be false? Just because information is available, doesn't mean that someone is going to have the desire to learn about it. This is where good Catholic people come into the picture.

[Aloysius]

there is culpable and inculpable ignorance (vincible and invincible in modern terminology but I think that term confuses the issue and the traditional words convey it much better)

to be culpably ignorant it must be your fault that you are ignorant of the truth.
to be inculpably ignorant it must not be your fault that you are ignorant of the truth.

to see whether it is your "fault" see my explanations of the synonym of "fault" above-- culpability.

EENS, go through my posts and find one thing you think cannot be found in magisterial teaching pre-vatican ii. I will provide you with the pre-vatican ii understanding.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

A.) I do not own the Hindu scriptures

B.) Hinduism is wrong Catholicism is not.

[Aloysius]

oh boy. let's not even go down that road, there's no point in comparing this to hinduism (though valiant effort hsmom)

I defy you to find one thing in my posts on this thread that is not pre-vatican ii.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

you guys have convinced me actually. Because this proves that the church has always thought of itself as a veichel salvation for all people. SO either the church is wrong or the church can save people who are not "members" of the faith. I think the church is right. But now the question is how much ignorance does it take to be saved?

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 09:19 PM'] SO either the church is wrong or the church can save people who are not "members" of the faith. I think the church is right. But now the question is how much ignorance does it take to be saved? [/quote]
Christ is the one who saves people EENS. The Church is the Bride of Christ that acts as a bridge for all to her spouse.

[Aloysius]

Paph, EENS is right actually. why? because there is no difference between Christ and His Church. the two cannot be set apart from each other. What the Church does on earth is what Christ does on earth (I speak of course of the Divine side of the Church, not the imperfect human face)

ignorance doesn't save. rad-trads will kill you on that point (though many people still try to argue with them on it, they convinced me)

what saves is the treasury of grace found only in the Catholic Church. God gives it to humanity though the Church.

through inculpable ignorance, one is not damned.
then one may be saved through the Church. baptism and faith in Christ connect one with the Church and thus salvitic grace can flow through (if their soul is not dead through mortal sin, this gives new understanding to when St. Paul says not to pray for those who have committed deadly sin, i.e. they're not connected to the Church)

so if inculpable ignorance is established in anyone, that doesn't mean they're saved. that means that God doesn't beaver dam them for not being in His Church. if they have some connection to the Church implicitly, there is the possibility of salvation through the Church. if there is no connection to the Church.. well they're not necessarily damned. they will be judged by the natural law written on the hearts of man, but without the connection to salvtic grace I believe in limbo (thus the unbaptized inculpably ignorant). others simply hope that if they are inculpably ignorant, there may be some way for them to be connected to the Church. there are speculations that are acceptable in an orthodox view, but I personally see such unbaptized inculpably ignorant as limbo-bound.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Jun 2 2005, 04:03 PM'] In other words, don't fast...or pray (when it's difficult or "inconvenient")...or take on the yoke of marriage or ordination or any other challenging life...or get a job...or get out of bed in the morning... [/quote]
No offense Raph but I think that you are setting up a straw man there...

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote] Christ is the one who saves people EENS. The Church is the Bride of Christ that acts as a bridge for all to her spouse. [/quote]

excuse that i was not thinking sorry.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

so if your not damned where do you go when you die?

[sweetpea316]

Thank you all for replying...it's helped me understand a lot actually.
And that is a good point made...about how just because there is information out there, doesn't mean everyone will use it and whatnot. I know that up until recently, the only thing I knew about Catholicism was the stereotypes and what I'd heard in my church. But since REALLY learning about it and studying it, I've been coming to realize that just because its how I've been raised, doesn't mean that its totally correct. (heh, try telling my parents that though...) Anyways, thanks again, yall really have helped me out. Thanks for your open minds and hearts; its great to have people like you as I journey to find the truth. God bless.