Guest FiddlingFingers Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 #1 Don't kill me for starting this debate...I don't like to be killed. What is with the whole John Paul the Great thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 It's referencing John Paul II. He was the last pope. He was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I think Sainthood and Greatnesshood are rightly judged by different standards. John Paul II will most definitely be a Saint. His holiness was irreproachable. But "Greatness", I think, has to do with an extraordinary effect on the governance of the Church. To judge it, you have to consider whether his decisions were truly great. How did they pan out in the grand scheme of things? Etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Can't add anything else myself. dUSt pretty well summed it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudette Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 [quote name='dUSt' date='May 20 2005, 02:03 PM'] It's referencing John Paul II. He was the last pope. He was great. [/quote] Awesome answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholictothecore Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 He was. Consider these He canonized 430-some. That doubled the size of all the others proclaimed by his 263 predeccesors. He travelled more to more countries and more times returned to many of those countries then any of his predeccesors. He basically made the Communists retreat from eastern Europe single handedly. He taught and instructed to such levels so as to be profound, yet at the same time keeping his teachings on the level that anyone could understand. And they wouldn't just look at his papacy either. His life also bears tremendous testament to God's grace. His life was what made him a saint; his papacy made him great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureSoror Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I think being 'great' doesn't necessarily have a whole lot to do with any one thing in particular. If enough people love someone enough and think he is 'great', they will call him 'the great'. We'll just have to see if it sticks and passes the test of time. I think that if someone has the title it is mainly a demonstration of the regard people had for him in in lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Holiness is being close to God, and miracles must be attributed to JPII before he can be acclaimed a saint by the church. There is no guarantee the he will be sainted - ever. But he is a popular candidate to say the least. Greatness is an acclamation of the people of the church. The more he is called 'The Great', and the more who insist on using this terminology, the more he will be accepted as 'The Great'. One could point out that there are over twice as many sainted popes in history than there is 'Great' popes (only 3 greats, I believe 9 sainted, but don't quote me on that). I believe he is well on the way to becoming the Great. Newspapers commonly refer to him in this fashion (especially in Rome and Italy, and I would believe in Poland as well). Going through the internet, I see more artciles on him refering to him as the Great. Look at phatmass home page. If the name sticks to JPII as being the Great, then he will be known as such and the church will eventually (officially) refer to him with this title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 there are many more than 9 sainted popes in history... starting with Peter the first three centuries have all popes as saints... then there's a lot more after that as well. the title "the great" is up for the people to decide. the title "saint" is up for the Magisterium to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 With all due respect..... Let's let him be dead a little while. While his pontificate was long, hence the many canonizations, cardinals, etc....there still needs to be deep probes into his life. Contrary to popular belief, there is a lot we don't know about him. As far as "The Great" title goes, there are only four.....Is he on the same level as Gregory, Leo, Basil and Albert? I don't know..... Let's let time play a role in this and respect the passing before we start with the titles. Remember, at this point, all we know for sure is that he is in the ground. We don't know for sure if he is in heaven, purgatory (where I think of him), or hell. I think of John Paul II in purgatory, because I think the mercy of God is great, but since he is not canonized, I can't say that he is in heaven for certain. Prudence rules my life....for the most part. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Ahh A voice of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Our current pope thinks of JPII as in Heaven, so we may have reason for the hastiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 GC makes a good point!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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