Jake Huether Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Yes. Even with murder there are degrees of culpability. Although I don't know of a case where someone didn't know that Murder was grave sin. Masterbation on the other hand (no pun intended) isn't as conspicuous as some. There are people who think that absolutly nothing is wrong with it. Murder? not many are confused about the gravity of murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I don't think the fact that it's habitual makes it less sinful, but the fact that it may be a disorder for some people. A person's mental state or inability to reason would make killing someone less sinful than a person who was in a perfect mental state with the intent to commit malicious murder. A person who knows that masturbation is a sin and makes a conscience decision to masturbate anyway, in direct opposition to God's will, is guilty of a mortal sin. If that person is married, they are guilty of infidelity to their spouse. Also, the practice has been "ingrained," as it were, and it is a little more difficult to "root it out." It may sounds strange, but for some it seems as though it is an addiction. I do know that addiction to pornography is also a physical addiction, so since the majority of the time the two are "practiced" together, there is that to take into consideration as well. However, that does not make it alright, it just means that it makes it that much more difficult to stop. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonle Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 (edited) As part of establishing that something is a sin in the Catholic Church then it requires believing that it is a sin? I guess a better way to phrase that might be what does knowing it is sinful mean, believing/feeling that a thing is sinful or knowing that the Church teaches that it is sinful? That may not have made any sense I've caught irrationality from Hyper. Edited July 15, 2003 by Jonle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 As part of establishing that something is a sin in the Catholic Church then it requires believing that it is a sin? I guess a better way to phrase that might be what does knowing it is sinful mean, believing/feeling that a thing is sinful or knowing that the Church teaches that it is sinful? That may not have made any sense I've caught irrationality from Hyper. No, it doesn't require believing it is a sin, it requires knowing it is a sin. I "believed" that pornography wasn't a sin for the longest time because I didn't understand (or be willing to understand) how it hurt anyone. I "knew" that the Church taught that it was a sin, therefore, I accepted the fact that I was sinning--although, I didn't really consider it sinning in "my own mind". I still confessed it. Gradually, I became more willing to uderstand the Church's teaching regarding pornography, and now I both "know" AND "believe" it is a sin--and do my best to avoid it, just like all the other sins one could name. Did that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonle Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I got ya. Thankee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 The Church makes no claim on belief when it comes down to determining whether or not something is a sin. The Truths that She teaches are not in anyway defined by our belief in them---I can believe that pink bunnies stole my shoes, but that doesn't make it so. If we know the teachings of the Church and are not even trying to conform to them we are damning ourselves. If we know and try to obey, but sometimes fail then that is why God made the Confessional. If you have knowledge of what the Church teaches and you haven't been granted the gift of believing that it is true ask God to give you the gift submission, of obedience, to what you can't understand and don't want to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 If we know the teachings of the Church and are not even trying to conform to them we are damning ourselves. If we know and try to obey, but sometimes fail then that is why God made the Confessional. If you have knowledge of what the Church teaches and you haven't been granted the gift of believing that it is true ask God to give you the gift submission, of obedience, to what you can't understand and don't want to accept. God has graced you Hyper. I think that is absolutely right. A very tough lesson to learn, comprehend, and live with. I wish I had an inkling of that 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Thank you jas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I've always wondered- is any sin a mortal sin if it meets the requirements of foreknowledge that it is sinful and it is done with intent? Or is there a specific list of sins somewhere that can be mortal? Go read St. Pauls list of mortal sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I've always wondered- is any sin a mortal sin if it meets the requirements of foreknowledge that it is sinful and it is done with intent? Or is there a specific list of sins somewhere that can be mortal? You might want to pi8ck up a copy of Making Choices: finding black and white in a world of gray by Peter Kreeft. One of the best books out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Sin is sin whether or not we believe it to be. We can also discern the severety of a sin, by how much damage it does to your relationship with God and the Church. Masturbation does grave damage to both. It doesn't matter whether you believe it does or not, it simply does. You may not believe gravity exists, but you'll fall if you jump off a cliff. I wrote down some of the reasons why masturbation is a sin in another thread. They weren't church teaching but real physical evidence of the harm that act does to ourselves and our relationships. Sin hurts, and mortal sin kills. Masturbating under full knowledge of Church teaching on lust and chastity is akin to committing suicide. We end our relationship with God definitavely. This is not to say He has stopped loving us or some nonsense, but that we make a conscious choice to turn our backs on Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeSoul Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 ::Raises her hands with a question:: If Masturbation is a sin, and masturbating as opposed to having sex (making love) with your partner is adultery/cheating...then does mutual masturbation in the realm of foreplay leading to intercourse also count as sin? Is foreplay in itself sinful? Honestly...I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 ::Raises her hands with a question:: If Masturbation is a sin, and masturbating as opposed to having sex (making love) with your partner is adultery/cheating...then does mutual masturbation in the realm of foreplay leading to intercourse also count as sin? Is foreplay in itself sinful? Honestly...I don't get it. No, it's not a sin. Masturbation leading to intercourse between a married couple is part of the larger picture of intercourse. Now if masturbation was used by a married couple to avoid intercourse, that very well could be another thing. It's the intent and/or purpose. In the larger context, if it is part of sexual union of married persons open to the gift of life, it's okay. If it is used to close sexual relations to the possiblitlity of life, then it's a problem. Just like Natural Family Planning is to be useful to a couple being obedient to God and responsible as parents can also be abused for the wrong purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeSoul Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 (edited) O.K., Is it just me...or does it seem only practical that in the long run less people be having sex... if all this foreplay should lead to intercourse... and if intercourse is only to lead to childbirth... then aren't we in trouble? I am not going to get into the whole resource debate...but the fact is the population is going to double in the next 100-1000 years...that 12 Billion people folks...if we don't cease with the baby making...or start adopting kids (which should happen anyway). Edited July 18, 2003 by FreeSoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 I am not going to get into the whole resource debate...but the fact is the population is going to double in the next 100-1000 years...that 12 Billion people folks...if we don't cease with the baby making...or start adopting kids (which should happen anyway). Please cite your sources for this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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