Catholic marrying a non-Catholic

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='May 18 2005, 05:48 PM']and what of people like my husband? who was not brought up as any religion? has no concept of God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit? i've taught him basically everything he knows about God and Jesus (he believes in them now) and now we're working on the Holy Spirit.  i consider it part of my "wifely duty" (ugh, what a term) to teach him about Christianity and Catholicism.  i hope (and pray) that one day he converts, but if he doesn't, it's not relative to my love for him.

[/quote]

This is your "wifely duty." What else can you do but pray and live your faith as you already are doing?
[quote name='1 Cor 7:12-16']I [St. Paul] say (not the Lord): if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she is willing to go on living with him, he should not divorce her; and if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he is willing to go on living with her, she should not divorce her husband.  [b]For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy.[/b]  If the unbeliever separates, however, let him separate. The brother or sister is not bound in such cases; God has called you to peace.  For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband; or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?[/quote]

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='kateri05' date='May 18 2005, 03:33 PM'] and even in order for that "toleration" to occur, the officiant presiding at the marriage (ie the priest filling out the paperwork) has to provide a REASON why the exception should be made.

of course, in a country where annulments are handed out like candy, that could be just as meaningless in some cases, but, i'm sure the Holy Spirit tries to work within the system

Don Jon, as for your comment:
:QUOTE: If they where a baptised Christian then yes it might be Sacramental ( I don't say is because there are things which can impede the sacrament even for Catholics) but if it is with some one who is not a baptised Christian then it is not a sacrament period. :QUOTE:

if the two parties are both baptized, full consent is given, openless to life is professed and a committment to raising the offspring in the Church then the marriage is a valid and binding SACRAMENT. punto. [/quote]
[quote]if the two parties are both baptized, full consent is given, openless to life is professed and a committment to raising the offspring in the Church then the marriage is a valid and binding SACRAMENT.  punto.[/quote]

No that is incorrect, there has to be no other inpedements to the marriage, further there must be premission from the Ordinary for a Catholic to marry anyone who is not a member of the Catholic Church, If no premission is garnered then the Sacramentality of the act is in question. Oh and of course you missed a BIG ONE, Marriages have to be in the name of the Trinity, Civil Marriages are NEVER Sacramental, precisely beccause they are not in the name of the Trinity. There are many many things which can interfer with the Sacramentality of a Marriage.

[kateri05]

sigh. ok im sorry, don john. please edit my post to include the marriage being in the name of the Trinity. i was attempting to cover all my matter and form for that particular sacrament and evidentally, i missed some. and OF COURSE permission is required (haven't i been saying that all along?). no impediments are met if full consent is given (because you can't give consent if you have impediments). the permission comes from, in part, the committment to raising the kids Catholic. the POINT is, if the conditions are met between 2 baptized persons, INCLUDING permission, it is 100% a sacrament. your precious post implied otherwise, that there remains doubt. that is the point i was attempting to rectify

and lil red, i think what mikey is trying to say (and should try to say a little more nicely!), is that its not a good idea to do it on purpose (because you are unequally yoked and why go looking for extra crosses?), but it does happen because God works in mysterious ways and when it does, He will certainly help you do your "wifely duties" (why are we quote-izing this? i like the expression! ) because clearly He wanted YOU to lead your husband to Him or He wouldn't have put you with him in the first place. well maybe thats not what Mikey wanted to say, but its what I did!

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='kateri05' date='May 18 2005, 05:49 PM'] sigh. ok im sorry, don john. please edit my post to include the marriage being in the name of the Trinity. i was attempting to cover all my matter and form for that particular sacrament and evidentally, i missed some. and OF COURSE permission is required (haven't i been saying that all along?). no impediments are met if full consent is given (because you can't give consent if you have impediments). the permission comes from, in part, the committment to raising the kids Catholic. the POINT is, if the conditions are met between 2 baptized persons, INCLUDING permission, it is 100% a sacrament. your precious post implied otherwise, that there remains doubt. that is the point i was attempting to rectify

and lil red, i think what mikey is trying to say (and should try to say a little more nicely!), is that its not a good idea to do it on purpose (because you are unequally yoked and why go looking for extra crosses?), but it does happen because God works in mysterious ways and when it does, He will certainly help you do your "wifely duties" (why are we quote-izing this? i like the expression! ) because clearly He wanted YOU to lead your husband to Him or He wouldn't have put you with him in the first place. well maybe thats not what Mikey wanted to say, but its what I did! [/quote]

[quote]your precious post implied otherwise, that there remains doubt.  that is the point i was attempting to rectify[/quote]
My post implyed nothing of the sort, I simply am not going to say that any marriage between baptized persons is necessarly sacramental because that is not the case there are many possible impedements as well as other factors, all marriages between baptised persons are assumed to be Sacramental unless shown otherwise, that is why they require an anullment.
[quote]no impediments are met if full consent is given (because you can't give consent if you have impediments).  [/quote] not true there are impedements which do not involve concent, there are even impedements which invalidate marriage even it is not known at the time of the marriage ( such as brothers and sisters who where seperated).

[scardella]

Note:
Just because a marriage isn't sacramental, that doesn't mean it's invalid.

[KobeScott8]

I think it's okay as long as the children are raised catholic, but be ready sometimes the difference in religion may cause problems???

[Sister Mary]

Dear Holy ones,

God created all of us to be together as one. Catholics and non-catholics are certainly able to marry in any christian church.
God bless all.






Sister Mary

[scardella]

Not to stifle the discussion, but I think I've kinda absorbed the answers to my questions after following the course of the debate.

Thanks all!

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='scardella' date='May 19 2005, 08:26 AM'] Note:
Just because a marriage isn't sacramental, that doesn't mean it's invalid. [/quote]
Note: yes it does. Non sacramental Marriages are contracts, nothing more. they are immoral and evil for a Christian to enter into, and offer no Grace to the non- Christian. A non sacramental marriage is of no concequence and the obligations to it are only those agreed to in the contract itself. If non- sacramental marriages are valid then polygamy, incestous unions, forced marriages, child marriage, all of those then are indeed Valid. Does anyone care to agrue that position.

[scardella]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='May 20 2005, 08:07 AM'] Does anyone care to agrue that position. [/quote]
I would, but I'd have to go back to my Christian Marriage class notes, and I'm gonna be out of town for the weekend. Hopefully I'll remember to reply after that.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='scardella' date='May 20 2005, 08:19 AM'] I would, but I'd have to go back to my Christian Marriage class notes, and I'm gonna be out of town for the weekend. Hopefully I'll remember to reply after that. [/quote]
If it is not sacramental than it is NOT a Christian marriage, soyour Christian marriage nots will probably help you very little.

[scardella]

I remember we discussed non-sacramental marriages in there, though.

[Don John of Austria]

Okay Perhaps you would prefer this, Non Sacramental marriages can be disolved by the Church without prejudice to the persons involved. Sacramental Marriages cannot be desolved accept by death, THe Church holds people accountable to promises they make in a non Sacramental marriage which would meet the requirments for a sacramental marriage if the people involved where Catholic. However as these promises can be desolved by the Church they are not one the same level as Promises made by Catholics.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='May 20 2005, 08:07 AM'] Note: yes it does. Non sacramental Marriages are contracts, nothing more. they are immoral and evil for a Christian to enter into, and offer no Grace to the non- Christian. A non sacramental marriage is of no concequence and the obligations to it are only those agreed to in the contract itself. If non- sacramental marriages are valid then polygamy, incestous unions, forced marriages, child marriage, all of those then are indeed Valid. Does anyone care to agrue that position. [/quote]
So Don John, If a non-Catholic (and thereby "non-sacramentally" married) husband and wife, enter into the Church, do they have to get married again? Would they be "living in sin"? Can one of them decide to to take up with another woman (man) and marry him (her) on the grounds that he (she) was "never validly married"? After all, according to you "non-sacramental marriages" are no more valid than incestuous unions and the like! Sounds phishy!

[scardella]

This was in the Gospel today:
[quote]But Jesus told them,
"Because of the hardness of your hearts
he wrote you this commandment.
But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother
and be joined to his wife,
and the two shall become one flesh.
So they are no longer two but one flesh.
Therefore what God has joined together,
no human being must separate."
In the house the disciples again questioned Jesus about this.
He said to them,
"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another
commits adultery against her;
and if she divorces her husband and marries another,
she commits adultery." - Mk 10:5-9[/quote]
Marriage is the primordial sacrament. It was there "in the beginning", before Jesus raised it to the level of a Sacrament. It's still valid. BTW, I'd still like a chance to look at my notes.

Edited May 20, 2005 by scardella