Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

[foolishmortal]

The message is a bit late, but what's the difference between a traditional and a primitive order?

Does anyone have the FPO site? I prefer the TLM, but I guess Fr. Padre Pio did do the NO (just as happily, I don't know).
Is the FI an obedient order? It seems so as I saw two Pope Benedict 16 articles that seemed favorable by the title.

Thanks!

[quote name='Beatus' post='1602221' date='Jul 17 2008, 05:03 PM']+JMJ

A very holy Order that promotes virginity and purity. Good people.[/quote]

[Thomist-in-Training]

Padre Pio never said the NO. He died in '68 and the NO was promulgated in 1970. I think he may have said the transitional Mass of '65, but I read that he wasn't happy about the news reports of the Vat. Council though I don't have a quote.

The FI are in communion, they were founded out of the Conventuals, have charge of a shrine in WI founded by Abp. Burke, are sacristans at St. Mary Major in Rome. Presently (post Summorum Pontificum) they say the NO and TLM both though in some places priest-friars are still learning the latter.

[RosaMystica]

I don't know if you know this order. They're not Franciscans but they do have your name: www.mileschristi.org

Edited December 7, 2008 by RosaMystica

[Carmeliteheart726]

[quote name='littlesister' post='1523748' date='May 10 2008, 01:03 AM']The FPO's spun off the CFR's 18-20 years ago. The Sisters were either with them or not too far behind. They went back to the primitive Rule of St. Francis. Cardinal Sean O'Malley (OFM Cap. himself) was Bishop of Fall River at the time and took them in. Number-wise, they were a just a handful to begin with, then a Franciscan from another branch joined them. We attended what were probably the first ordinations for the FPO's in '91 or '92. Their seminary studies were guided by a theology prof from the FI's, who lived close by. There were about six Sisters, and they had a few discerners but no vocations of their own yet.[/quote]

So THAT'S where the CFR's originated from! I really was hoping to learn somehow where their roots are. Thanks!

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='foolishmortal' post='1715605' date='Nov 30 2008, 10:25 PM']The message is a bit late, but what's the difference between a traditional and a primitive order?

Does anyone have the FPO site? I prefer the TLM, but I guess Fr. Padre Pio did do the NO (just as happily, I don't know).
Is the FI an obedient order? It seems so as I saw two Pope Benedict 16 articles that seemed favorable by the title.

Thanks![/quote]

i'm thinking traditional means more of following the traditional, conservative practices of the Church.. anything that is "how they used to do it" or "how it's always been done" is what they do, from the Mass, to prayers, daily holy hour, Rosary, to activities, etc. they may still drive cars, be active in the community, play music, use computers/tv once in a while, etc.

primitive sounds more like living hardcore like St. Francis did, totally barebones. getting up at midnight to pray, more prayer, more penance, more silence, no driving, no music instruments, no telephones, appliances.. like Fred Flintstone/caveman primitive style. the more i learn about them, the more i wonder if i could do it..

[url="http://www.head-of-holofernes.com/fpos.htm"]http://www.head-of-holofernes.com/fpos.htm[/url]

i have not found any orders that are active/contemplative and have younger vocations that also do the TLM. the only ones i know of that do it occasionally or may do it in the future are the FI and Norbertines. i also adore the TLM, but it is not a deciding factor for me.

the FI are very traditional and extremely obedient to the Magisterium, afaik (i visited). one thing you may appreciate that i noticed - even though they mostly did the NO at one of the friaries, they bring out a kneeler for Communion, following the example of our Holy Father B16. tabernacle is in the center. also on Wednesdays they do the NO in Latin, ad orientem, incense, etc. the TLM is very possible in the near future.

also the founder of the FI was the spiritual son of Padre Pio = Padrio Pio was his spiritual director! they follow St. Maximilian Kolbe, and so are extremely Marian. extreme^3!

[MithLuin]

It is my understanding that in his later years, Padre Pio no longer had good eyesight, so he was given a dispensation to continue saying the masses he had memorized rather than to change anything. So, I really doubt he said the Novus Ordo mass or even the transitional one. That is not to say that there are not many saintly priests living today who say the Novus Ordo mass.

Obviously, you want to join an order that is obedient to the Magisterium and authentically Catholic. I am pretty sure that all three of these groups qualify for that in spades: CFRs, FPOs and FI. The first two probably do not have the Tridentine mass as part of their regular practices, though.



What makes the FPOs unique is their radical poverty. They do not drive cars or fly in airplanes - if they want to get somewhere, they hitchhike. Even if that 'somewhere' is in Central America.... They beg for their food each day. They do not have buildings for ministry, but rather have their apostolate make use of whatever buildings the church has available. They do not have money - as individuals or as an order.

This is what makes them 'primitive' - they seek to live St. Francis' life of holy poverty as authentically as possible. It is radical and hardcore, and [i]definitely[/i] not for everyone. They are awesome, though. The ones I've met are deeply holy men.

The CFRs, while seeking to renew an authentic Franciscan spirit, do not take their poverty to such extremes (though they do live out their vow of poverty in a pretty real way!). They also (whilst having a vibrant prayer life) are more active, not [i]as[/i] contemplative as the FPOs. Really, they are both great groups, and come out of the Capuchin Franciscan tradition.


I have not met the FIs, so I won't say much about them, except that having the spiritual inheritence of Padre Pio and Maximillian Kolbe is pretty awesome!

[johnnydigit]

CFR, FPO, and FI are in my top choices as far as friars, the Norbertines (specifically at St. Michael's Abbey in Silverado, CA www.abbeynews.com) and FSSP as far as canon regulars. these seem to be, next to the dioceses, attracting the most young-adult/active/contemplative vocations in the country.

[puellapaschalis]

The FSSP are canons regular?

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1753637' date='Jan 17 2009, 01:31 AM']The FSSP are canons regular?[/quote]

"FSSP is not a religious order. According to Canon law, the FSSP is a "Clerical Society of Apostolic Life of Pontifical Right." It is not an Institute of Consecrated Life, and members take no religious vows, making the same promises of chastity and obedience as diocesan priests and, in addition, swear an oath as members of the Society. The Fraternity's Pontifical right status means that it has been established by the Pope and is answerable only to him in terms of their operation (through the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei), rather than to local bishops. A local bishop still governs the fraternity's work within his respective diocese. In this sense its organization and administrative reporting status are similar to those of religious orders of pontifical right such as the Jesuits and Dominicans. (wikipedia)"

[MithLuin]

I just bumped into some FPOs last week, hitchhiking from their hermitage (about 30 mi. from Brattleboro) back to Lawrence after a 2 week silent retreat. They are no longer in Emittsburg; they send their friars to the seminary in Boston now, I think.

The FPOs have some freedom to live such extreme poverty because they are not given the same status in canon law as other more established religious orders.

[littlesister]

Yes, hitchhike they do. Can't help remembering one bitter, icy, January evening in Massachusetts not long after the community started. About six of them were along a main road with their thumbs out. They all looked like St. Francis incarnate: beards, rough blanket-cloaks, and barefoot sandals. The police finally picked them up themselves, saying that they were a traffic hazard. Too many drivers were craning their necks for a look instead of watching where they were going - and instead of taking them in themselves. They did look like something out of a movie. The rest of us were at the end of the road, waiting for a Youth 2000 weekend to begin.

[MithLuin]

I've got a new hard core Franciscan order for you gentlemen! My guess is that it is closest in character to the FPOs, which is why I am adding them to this thread, rather than the FI thread. I suppose I could start a brand new one, but I don't have very much info in order to do that...this is merely an out-of-the-office e-mail auto reply and a news article.

[quote]By the call of God and the grace of our Lady, I have recently begun, together with 7 young men, the institution of a new Franciscan community, the Franciscan Brothers Minor. Together we will seek to live, as closely as possible, the original Rule of St. Francis. Henceforth I will not be available by phone or email. If you wish to contact me, please write to:

Fr David Mary, F.F.M.
Our Lady of the Angels Friary
412 West Avenue
Mt. Carmel, PA 17851

Please pray for us as we begin this new venture in the Lord. Be sure of our prayers for you, and feel free to write or visit anytime.

Pax et Bonum, Fr. David Mary Engo, F.F.M.[/quote]

Very awesome, no? Fr. David Engo was with the FPOs back in 2000, and most recently he was with the Capuchins. If you'd like to read some of his homilies, click [url=http://www.penitents.org/frdavid.html]here[/url]. He is an amazingly solid and authentic priest, so I hope this new venture will be showered with blessings. Please pray for them!

[url=http://newsitem.com/news/a-great-gift-eight-franciscan-brothers-move-into-mt-carmel-look-to-serve-community-1.482627]"A Great Gift" - 8 Franciscan Brothers Move into Mount Carmel[/url]

[MithLuin]

And the above address is already defunct! Ah well...here's the update on the FFM: they are following Bishop Rhoades to Fort Wayne, Indiana. They left Mount Carmel, PA this week.

http://newsitem.com/news/franciscan-brothers-leaving-mount-carmel-will-relocate-in-indiana-1.657220




In the meantime, I thought I'd post a facebook page about the FPOs:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18285728655

There's at least one new article on there that hasn't been posted here before.

[quote]Hudson church holds 5-day ‘confessathon’

By PATRICK MEIGHAN

(Captions of photos)
[i]The Franciscan Friars of the Primitive Observance from Lawrence, Mass., visited Saint Kathryn Parish in Hudson this week. Brother Felix was one of the members attending. Father Andrew was available during the parish Confess-a-Thon. The four knots tied into the cord that binds their habit represent their vows of poverty, chastity, obedience and consecration.[/i]



Father Gary Belliveau looked at what’s been happening at St. Kathryn Parish over the past five days as a good spring cleaning.

“A lot of cleaning up is going on around here. A cleaning of souls and of the grounds,” said the Rev. Belliveau, known to his parishioners as Father Gary.

The outdoor cleaning came courtesy of two Franciscan brothers who raked up pinecones and sticks dropped by the recent windstorm.

The cleaning of souls happened through a 42-hour “confessathon” heard by Father Gary and two priests belonging to the Franciscan Friars of the Primitive Order, based in Lawrence, Mass.

The Franciscans visited the Roman Catholic parish in south Hudson as part of a Lenten mission.

It marked the second time the Franciscans had come to St. Kathryn’s, but the first for the confession marathon.

Confessions were heard 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. Saturday, Monday and Tuesday, from noon to 9 p.m. on Sunday, and finally a 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. session on Wednesday.

Given that he alone had heard 70 confessions on Tuesday, and three confessionals were in use most of the time, Father Gary figures that more than 1,000 people, including 200 children, participated in the sacrament of penance over the five days.

One of the Franciscans, Father Andrew Beauregard, surveyed the schedule when he arrived at the parish on Friday.

“It doesn’t look like there’s time to eat,” he thought.

That proved prophetic, as Father Andrew chose to forego his scheduled half-hour dinner break on Tuesday because of a dinner-hour surge of confession-goers.

He finally had something at 10 p.m. that night.

After such a long day, “it tasted really good,” he said.

During the Lenten season, the parish typically makes extra time available for confessions, Father Gary said.

“We haven’t called it a confessathon in the past,” he said.

“I’ve been a priest for two years, and this is the busiest I’ve experienced,” Father Andrew said.

The two Franciscan brothers might have had the easier task given the fine weather – if you consider manual labor easier than sitting in a small room for hour after hour.

“It’s great weather, plus, I love it,” said Brother Felix Waldron, who was working outside with Jim Robson, a friend interested in joining the Franciscan faith community as a lay person.

Parishioners see them working outside and witness their faith and service, Father Gary said.

The Franciscans live simple lives of prayer and study, and in Lawrence work with the poor. While Father Andrew drove to Hudson from Rhode Island, the other Franciscans walked here from Lawrence as part of their Lenten observance.

During the walk here on Friday, a parishioner offered them a ride, Father Gary noted. They declined, but did say she could bring their food – crusty brown bread, as on Fridays in Lent they eat only bread and drink only water, Father Gary said.

While the confessathon makes it convenient for people to find time in their busy lives to take part in the sacrament, the mission itself encourages parishioners to renew their faith, and the dedication and service of the Franciscans provide a model, the parish priest said.

Besides the confessions, a Mass and mission talk were offered each day at 9 a.m. and 7 p.m.

“I want to go deeper in my love of God and for my neighbor,” said Jackie Hynes, who came to have her confession heard on Wednesday morning.

It’s easy to fall into the trap of being lukewarm with faith, said Hynes, who has attended the parish for seven years.

“Mediocrity is the name of the game. But this charges us up. I came for a spiritual shot in the arm,” Hynes said.[/quote]
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/667046-196/hudson-church-holds-5-day-confessathon.html

Edited March 25, 2010 by MithLuin