.......And weve always said god allowed evil

[infinitelord1]

i have just pondered something that says otherwise. Disease. Disease has to be an evil of the world. Specifically, sexually transmitted disease could be noted as a consequence of sin. Disease clearly says that god creates evil. We have always believed that god creates things in his image. Furthermore, god is not perfect since evil is included in his image. Correct me if im wrong.

[Myles Domini]

Two things one about [url="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/104800.htm"]evil[/url] the other about [url="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/104900.htm"]good[/url].

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='May 10 2005, 02:04 AM'] Disease. Disease has to be an evil of the world. Specifically, sexually transmitted disease could be noted as a consequence of sin. Disease clearly says that god creates evil. [/quote]
Why does disease have to be evil? What is your definition of evil? Also if you say it is a conseqeunce of sin, then it is not an evil, but simply an effect of someone's mistake. I think we ought to leave out STD's for those can be muddy waters.

[quote]We have always believed that god creates things in his image.[/quote]

We believe that God created [i]man[/i] in His image. It does not say that He created everything in His image. Please be careful about that.

[quote]Furthermore, god is not perfect since evil is included in his image.[/quote]

Why do you say it is included in His image?

Are you familiar with the privation theory?

[PennyLane]

God does not CREATE evil, He only allows evil to happen.

[Semalsia]

[quote]God does not CREATE evil[/quote]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Isaiah 45:7


Edit.
Isn't God the creator of everything?

Edited May 11, 2005 by Semalsia

[Brother Adam]

Q: In Isaiah 45:7 the scripture reads as follows: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Could you explain this scripture for me?

A: This verse has troubled many people for many centuries. However, it is
not as difficult as it initially seems. Let me see if I can help you.

The problem is with God declaring that He creates evil. Though a small
percentage of people teach that God is the source of all evil in the
world, most people have trouble with the thought that God could be good
and be the creator of evil at the same time. But the problem is in our
understanding. God does create evil as He plainly states, but that evil
is not what we assume it to be.

The word "evil" is used 613 times in the Bible (as a side comment, Jewish
tradition teaches that the Torah has 613 mikvahs or commandments).
Although the Bible meaning of evil includes the idea of sinfulness or
wickedness in many cases, it also has a broader meaning that is commonly
used. In this broader meaning, evil refers to those things that are
generally thought of as bad or undesirable; or as the dictionary says,
"causing pain or trouble." This would include things such as wars or
disease and this is the kind of evil referred to in Isaiah 45:7, not
wickedness.

Of course, this answer has its own problems. Some would think God wrong
to be the source of sorrow in the world. So, we must look at two things.
First, I will give proofs that the "evil" of Isaiah 45:7 refers to
sorrows and not to wickedness. Second, I will explain how God can
righteously create sorrows.

MEANING OF EVIL:

1. Isaiah 45:7 makes two contrasts. First, light is contrasted with
darkness. That makes perfect sense because the two ideas are exact
opposites. Then, the verse contrasts peace with evil - "I make peace, and
create evil." If evil means wickedness, this does not make sense. Peace
is not the opposite of wickedness. However, if evil refers to troubles
and sorrows as those found in war, it makes perfect sense. The second
pair of ideas would then be complete opposites.

2. The immediate context of the verse (Isaiah 45:5-10) also supports
this definition. Two times in this passage, God states, "I am the LORD,
and there is none else" (v.5, 6). God is not one god out of many. He is
the only God. There is not a god of the rain, a god of the sunshine, a
god of the storm, a god of the harvest, a god of war, a god of fertility,
a god of death, and so on. There is one God who is responsible for all
that is done. In this passage, God is not removing responsibility from
man for the evil that he brings into the world, He is simply saying that
there is no other god.

After the verse in question, we see this warning, "Woe unto him that
striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of
the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest
thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?" This continues the warning against
thinking of God as a pagan thought of his gods. He is not to be trifled
with. He can bring evil on you if you strive with Him.

3. The first reference to evil in the Bible is in Genesis 2:9 where the
Bible speaks of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Notice that
evil is the opposite of good. In other words, it corresponds closely to
our concept of that which is bad or undesirable.

4. Lot feared to go into the mountain when he fled from Sodom, "lest
some evil take me, and I die." He was not talking about iniquity catching
him. He was referring to something bad happening.

5. Genesis 37:20, 33 both refer to an "evil beast." This obviously
refers to a harmful beast; one that could hurt someone. The verses are
not calling the beast sinful.

These examples could be continued on and on. Some references to evil do
refer to that which is sinful but many do not. Evil has a much broader
meaning in the Bible. Clearly, in Isaiah 45:7, the broader meaning of
evil in meant.

CREATOR OF SORROW:

This, however, does not entirely solve our problem. Is God the cause of
all sorrow in the world? Do we blame Him for every tragedy we see? And,
if so, how can this be right? If God is love, how can He bring such
sorrows on mankind?

But please understand this: God is not the singular author of all
evil--even when we understand that it refers to trouble and sorrow.
Nothing in this verse states that God is the source of all evil. Man
brings many evils on himself. Certainly, the declaration that God creates
evil refers to His judgment of man's disobedience. That is, when man
disobeys God and evil comes as the result of his disobedience, the God
who is the only God is the source of that evil. He is the creator of it.
Consider the following verses:

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god
with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there
any that can deliver out of my hand.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish
women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall
we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Psalm 75:7 But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up
another.

1Samuel 2:6-7 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to
the grave, and bringeth up. The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he
bringeth low, and lifteth up.

There are other verses, but you can understand the idea. Notice
especially Deuteronomy 32:39 where the fact that God is the only God is
placed alongside the idea that He kills and He makes alive. The Old
Testament passages are dealing with pagan worshippers of many gods. They
had a god for everything. In these verses, God is establishing the fact
that everything that comes from any god comes from Him alone as the only
God.

[PennyLane]

Although that is a bit confusing (for a blonde )... I've gained a better understanding.

thanks.

God bless.