Masturbation

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1224471' date='Mar 31 2007, 07:16 PM']Considering masturbation really is the least of our worries, I think this debate has been fun.

Lets all agree to disagree. I might be wrong, but the Lord will reveal that to me through the holy ghost, and his word. I might not be rightly dividing the word, but God is faithful.

Lets talk about something else.[/quote]


Well ok, but it is sexual gratification which is forbidden. The body is the Temple of the Lord, or at least it should be, masturbation is fornication, it abuses the body, it does not make it holy.

I pray you pray for the wisdom to see this truth.

[dairygirl4u2c]

when jesus said don't lust, i seriously thought the first time i read that without the preconcieved notinos that he meant if you would commit adultery/fornication but for some reason didn't, you're still guilty of adultery/fornication.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1224229' date='Mar 31 2007, 03:11 PM']While reading Leviticus today, it talks about men who spread their seed of compulation, and that it makes them unclean. It doesn't say anything about sin offerings made for it. I just think it means it is unhealthy to do it, and you shouldn't. And then it says to bath yourself immediately. That doesn't mean it is immediately sinful though - or God would ask for a sin offering if you did that.

God knows you have needs, and if you're not married, I can't see him saying - NO! That's a sin, without saying so in his word.
So God's only command, wash your body, and wash your clothes. He doesn't give any other command, when it comes to making a sin offering - so I conclude, God doesn't think masturbation is a sin, but make sure you take a shower and wash your clothes after.

These are one of these stupid little things Satan loves condemming us for. We are sexual beings, and if we are not married, you're allowed to relieve yourself. Just wash your body and clothes afterwards![/quote]Masturbation (sexual self-gratification) is grave matter and therefore can be Mortal Sin. These verses speak about what is offending to Almighty God (which classifies as sin) but when we read verse "[i]And on the eighth day [b]he shall take two turtles, or two young pigeons,[/b] and he shall come before the Lord, to the door of the tabernacle of the testimony, and[u] shall give them to the priest: Who shall offer one for sin, and the other for a holocaust[/u]: [b]and he shall pray for him before the Lord, that he may be cleansed of the issue of his seed[/b][/i]." This is an offering for sin and therefore shows that it is a sinful act. It therefore cannot be sickness (since sickness never required sin offerings) and it cannot be unintentional ejaculation since it is not considered sinful. The "issue of seed" is indeed masturbation... Moreover, you have to remember that for the previous chapters they spoke of sickness and how to stay clean, it would be redundant to repeat it here moreover because this book is listing the laws that the Jewish people are to abide by.[quote name='Raphael' post='1224232' date='Mar 31 2007, 03:15 PM']The passage in Leviticus is about unintentional ejaculation, not masturbation. Masturbation is always gravely wrong because it is intentional stimulation of the genitalia (and thus an abuse of the genitalia, since it misuses them) for the intended purpose of orgasm (and thus morally no different from the sin of Onan, who wished to have an orgasm, but not to have children).

God bless,

Micah[/quote]It never lists unintentional ejaculation but if it is, then God considers it sinful because He calls it sinful in the passages themselves. Moreover, when you read the end of this chapter it writes, “that they may not die”. How are you going to die from unintentional masturbation? You cant! They are referring to the supernatural death of mortal sin! But if you can give proof that this is unintentional I am all ears... [quote name='FullTruth' post='1224264' date='Mar 31 2007, 03:57 PM']The first part of Leviticus 15 is about being SICK - not masturbation.
Sounds like sickness to me, not masturbation.

I would wash my sheets too, if I was just sick.

It could be just about anything - including mono, and many other things.

Honestly, it sounds like healthy living to me. If someone spits on you, wash yourself - especially if they have a cold or the flu, or something else like that.

The seed of copulation is only after, and is part of healthy living too.

This is not a chapter of condemnation, but of healthy living, and how to take care of yourself.[/quote]There was a lot of ritual washing for ceremonial purity, had little to do with hygiene. It also reflects today how the Church professes that when we commit a sin in a place we invite the dominion of the evil to that place or object; thus by having the house blessed by a Priest, being prayed over, or the dispersion of Holy Water this dominion is curbed. But like I wrote before, the issues of hygiene with sickness was already covered in previous chapters it would be redundant to bring it up again.

But if it was a chapter of healthy living I would question why Almighty God says that we can receive death from this and calls it “fitly humor.” I don’t have all the answers since I don’t know everything, but reasonably speaking theses verses clearly show that masturbation is not only wrongful but it is sinful. It also reflects verses in the New Testament that the Jews would of realized concerning purity. But to quote a few other verses...[quote][b]Gen. 38:8-10[/b]
"Juda, therefore said to Onan his son: Go in to thy brother's wife and marry her, that thou mayst raise seed to thy brother. He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother's wife, [u]spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother's name[/u]. [b][u]And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing[/u][/b]."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/01038.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/01038.htm[/url][/quote][quote][b]Jer. 18:21[/b]
"Therefore deliver up their children to famine, and bring them into the hands of the sword: let their wives be bereaved of children and widows: and let their husbands be slain by death: let their young men be stabbed with the sword in battle."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/28018.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/28018.htm[/url][/quote][quote][b]Gal. 6:7-8[/b]
"Be not deceived, God is not mocked. For what things a man shall sow, [b]those also shall he reap[/b][u]. For he that soweth in his flesh, [b]of the flesh also shall reap corruption[/b][/u]. But he that soweth in the spirit, of the spirit shall reap life everlasting."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/55006.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/55006.htm[/url][/quote][quote][b]1 Cor. 6:19-20[/b]
"Or know you not, [u]that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost[/u], who is in you, whom you have from God; and you are not your own? For you are bought with a great price. [b]Glorify and bear God in your body[/b]."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53006.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53006.htm[/url][/quote]

Edited April 1, 2007 by Mr.CatholicCat

[N/A Gone]

I got in an argument with a lady today who was asking me how to talk to her son since she caught him masterbating (he is 12) anytime I started talking about the damage it can cause future relationships, and the addictive property and all the common arguments she continued to counter by telling me that child molesters are usually the kids that were told it is wrong to touch themselves.

oyoy

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1237006' date='Apr 9 2007, 09:12 PM']I got in an argument with a lady today who was asking me how to talk to her son since she caught him masterbating (he is 12) anytime I started talking about the damage it can cause future relationships, and the addictive property and all the common arguments she continued to counter by telling me that child molesters are usually the kids that were told it is wrong to touch themselves.

oyoy[/quote][url="http://www.ascensionpress.com/shop/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=150&idAff=1334"]Winning the Battle for Sexual Purity[/url] is a great resource in this area. Christopher West talks specifically to men, and addresses why it's wrong and how to battle with your desires. It's valuable for anyone to listen to, so I'd suggest it to the mom, if I were you.

[prose]

I just read this whole thread.

I don't understand how someone could possibly say "What can you do if you aren't married?"

Are they being serious?

How about the idea of Self Mastery? Self Control? Saying a prayer to resist sexual temptation? Reading the Bible?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='prose' post='1238935' date='Apr 11 2007, 04:19 PM']I just read this whole thread.

I don't understand how someone could possibly say "What can you do if you aren't married?"

Are they being serious?

How about the idea of Self Mastery? Self Control? Saying a prayer to resist sexual temptation? Reading the Bible?[/quote]

That's really what I was thinking. I mean, if you can't control yourself outside of marriage, what would make you think that you'll be able to within marriage (noting that marriage has periods of abstinence as well)? And personally, I feel that masturbating is tantamount to not waiting for marriage.

[jmjtina]

Our Diocesan person who helps parents, etc and is in charge of the child protection thingy around the area stated it was "normal" at one of our Parent CCD nights.......................talk about major clean up after she left.

I've never seen my priest livid until then.......it's a good thing Jason Evert came later to talk to our kiddos!

[dairygirl4u2c]

To people who see it as natural, you're saying self control is like saying have self control in eating no candy because they taste good. Pleasure with so little nutrition is silly. Or, if you insist candy gives nutrition so can be eaten, then masturbation gives stress relief etc.
To these people it's about everything in moderation.

[Urib2007]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to lust after someone to masturbate?
For example, looking at a picture, video or thinking of someone?
Unless you can keep your thoughts pure while doing that, I would think it's a sin to
masturbate.

Saint Paul is very clear about this: "Do not let anyone deceive you with empty arguments. Among you their must not even be mention of fornication, promiscuity, or impurity in any of it's forms! You can be quite certain that no one who actually indulges in promiscuity, or impurity - which is worshiping a a false god - can inherit any thing of the kingdom of God! Impure things that are done in secret, are things that people are ashamed even to speak of! Immoral behavior such as this brings down God's anger upon the children of disobedience. Make sure you are not included among them! You were in darkness once, but now you are light in the Lord! Be like children of light! The effects of this light are manifest by complete goodness, and truth, and right living. Anything exposed to the light will be illuminated, and anything illuminated turns into light. So, be very careful about the sort of lives you lead. Pray the psalms, and sing to the Lord in your heart! Everywhere you are, give thanks to the Lord! This may be a wicked age, but you can redeem it!" (Ephesians 5: 2-15)

Edited April 27, 2007 by Urib2007

[Didymus]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1257772' date='Apr 27 2007, 07:10 AM']Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to lust after someone to masturbate?
For example, looking at a picture, video or thinking of someone?
Unless you can keep your thoughts pure while doing that, I would think it's a sin to
masturbate.[/quote]

Even if someone is not directly lusting after an actual individual or a figment of their imagination, it is objectively sinful to knowingly masturbate. It is using God's gift of sexuality against it's purpose, which is to share it with another. (man and woman, or course)

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1308122' date='Jul 1 2007, 06:31 PM']Even if someone is not directly lusting after an actual individual or a figment of their imagination, it is objectively sinful to knowingly masturbate.[/quote]

How can one do that unknowingly?

[kamiller42]

[quote name='prose' post='1238935' date='Apr 11 2007, 04:19 PM']I just read this whole thread.

I don't understand how someone could possibly say "What can you do if you aren't married?"[/quote]
I haven't read the whole thread, but I find the question insulting to marriage. If you think marriage is some sort of pressure valve, a tool, a license to be promiscuous, you should not get married. You need to learn why God created marriage and what are the elements of marriage. Want to know? Start with the Catechism.

[dairygirl4u2c]

as much as i'd theoretically agree with kamiller's last point, i do remember st. paul saying if you can't contain yourself then you should get married.

i guess you could argue he was just saying, it's better to do it in mariage than outside of it. but neither are good. and so not neceesarily in conflict with kamiller's ppoint.

i tend to think st. paul was a tool at times, so i think that's probably what to think of what he's said, rather than trying to reconcile what he said with sanity. (though here it might be possible, generally and perhaps here i'm not even going to try)

[Deb]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1311569' date='Jul 3 2007, 07:36 PM']How can one do that unknowingly? [/quote]


I think you could do it without actually objectiving a specific person. Sometimes hormones are so off the charts that it wouldn't take much..............never mind. It is a sin. It is a sin. It is a sin. It is a sin.