Execute Them!

[Carrie]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 25 2005, 10:42 AM'] Castration was introduced into the conversation as an extreme means of treatment. There are cases where pedophiles have requested it. [/quote]
I'm aware of that.

I was simply clarifying what is meant by castration, as it seems some are confused by how it is done.

[damu]

[b][color=red]Rule #5. Thou shall not kill[/color].[/b]

[Jaime]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Apr 25 2005, 09:04 AM'] I'm aware of that.

I was simply clarifying what is meant by castration, as it seems some are confused by how it is done. [/quote]
Oops... sorry Carrie!

[Carrie]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 25 2005, 11:13 AM'] Oops... sorry Carrie! [/quote]
No reason for sorry!

[MichaelFilo]

What I have trouble with is that you seem to be on the grounds that sexual disorder cannot be reversed and changed. With your line of thinking, masturbation would be condemable to death, as is promiscuity (if the law were Catholic in nature). That would be silly. Sexual disorders can be cured, or at least nulled.

God bless,
Mikey

[Aloysius]

pedophilia is a PATHOLOGY. thgere is a 90% recidivism rate, these people almost always will do it again and the ones who don't simply just don't get a chance or we don't know about.

that said, I changed my mind. see, I had those people who kidnap, rape, and then kill children when I posted this. I didn't really think it through but yeah, I'm really thinking about the murdering ones so it just fits in with my support of the death penalty for murderers which is already done. so never mind.

damu, actually the more accurate translation of what the scripture says there is "thou shall not murder" or "thou shall not unjustly kill". God has ordered man to kill before such that actually to not kill in that instance would've been sin. execution is the just right of the state on not even the Catechism denies it. it's qualifyer about modern times is declared debatable within orthodox Catholocism by the CDF.

but this wasn't about DP in general, so basically I was wrong because I was thinking of something else.

[MichaelFilo]

Murder should result in excution. I believe murders may change (women who abort their children and therefore destroy human life (can be justly called murderer) can change). I would wish for a more case by case appointment of appropriate punishment (I despise "mass culture" where one size fits all), but find that murder is justifiably punishable with an equivocal sentance.

A pedophile may change, but should be kept away from children forever. You cannot keep a murderer from human beings forever, though.

God bless,
Mikey

[Aloysius]

anyway, I'm basically thinking pedophile-murderer (as in these people that kidnap children, rape them, and kill them)=automatic execution so long as it is proven (these cases tend to have very very clear evidence where if they are guilty it can usually be proven way beyond reasonable doubt)

[Carrie]

If you automatically execute them, you strip their chances of ever reconciling with God.

Some of these people do repent for their sins. It is not up to us to take that chance away from them.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Apr 27 2005, 08:10 AM'] If you automatically execute them, you strip their chances of ever reconciling with God.

Some of these people do repent for their sins. It is not up to us to take that chance away from them. [/quote]
Weak argument (and one that has been used both ways).
People can repent (or not repent) in a few days or many years.
Personally I think they will be more likely to change if given the death penalty. Knowing that one has only so many days to live has a way of focusing one's mind on the Last Things.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 27 2005, 02:06 PM'] Weak argument (and one that has been used both ways).
People can repent (or not repent) in a few days or many years.
Personally I think they will be more likely to change if given the death penalty. Knowing that one has only so many days to live has a way of focusing one's mind on the Last Things. [/quote]
It's not a weak argument, but an argument that focuses on God's will (which we cannot assume anything about).

How do you know whether or not they would repent in a few days or maybe a few years down the line? It's not for you to know, but for God. Personally, I'd never want to take the chance that I had something to do with the execution of someone and possibly taking that chance away from them.

And if you want to take this from a non-religious viewpoint, keep in mind that executing one person costs more than keeping that same person in prison for life.

Execution is a lose-lose situation, no matter how you look at it.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Apr 27 2005, 09:10 AM'] If you automatically execute them, you strip their chances of ever reconciling with God.

Some of these people do repent for their sins. It is not up to us to take that chance away from them. [/quote]
traditional Catholic Teaching has always held it to be highly virtuous to repent and accept death as your just punishment like the Good Theif on the Cross. it's known as expiation, and the reason it's God's will is that God gives such authority to the state.

for more info on the death penalty in general, Avery Cardinal Dulles has a good artical [url="http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0104/articles/dulles.html"]http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0104...les/dulles.html[/url]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Apr 27 2005, 02:13 PM'] It's not a weak argument, but an argument that focuses on God's will (which we cannot assume anything about).

How do you know whether or not they would repent in a few days or maybe a few years down the line?  It's not for you to know, but for God.  Personally, I'd never want to take the chance that I had something to do with the execution of someone and possibly taking that chance away from them. 

And if you want to take this from a non-religious viewpoint, keep in mind that executing one person costs more than keeping that same person in prison for life. 

Execution is a lose-lose situation, no matter how you look at it. [/quote]
Cardinal Dulles disagrees with you.
He said knowing the date of your death can wonderfully focus your mind on the last things.

Edited April 27, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[MichaelFilo]

[quote name='damu' date='Apr 25 2005, 10:05 AM'] [b][color=red]Rule #5. Thou shall not kill[/color].[/b] [/quote]
If you do not mind, when posting such statements, clarify your position. Because of the channel through which a forum works (text online) the message isn't so easily conveyed in one line. Please explain. I cannot tell whether yous upport other means of punishment, or you are opposed to hurting criminals, therefore letting the guilty go loose to hound the people. Please explain.

God bless,
Mikey

[Q the Ninja]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Apr 26 2005, 07:22 PM'] anyway, I'm basically thinking pedophile-murderer (as in these people that kidnap children, rape them, and kill them)=automatic execution so long as it is proven (these cases tend to have very very clear evidence where if they are guilty it can usually be proven way beyond reasonable doubt) [/quote]
I do not think this follows. You don't always need to kill murderers, ergo you shouldn't always kill pedophiles.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be used, but I don't think you can't say it should always be used. It is a grave act to kill someone, no matter what it is. There is at least a material evil in the act, really. You cannot will this, nor can you be seeking this. That's easy enough.

However, you have to limit the evil done. If there's no danger to keep them in jail forever, it is better (ergo illicit to kill them). You must minimize the evil, otherwise there is an evil done. If they're a danger, then that's proper time to invoke the death penalty.