Execute Them!

[learning2breathe]

I totally agree with you, argent_paladin. We must choose life!

I just had to pull this quote out from LOTR because it fits so well:

[i]Frodo:[/i] It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance.
[i]Gandalf:[/i] Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. [b]Even the very wise cannot see all ends.[/b] My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.
[i]~The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring[/i]

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 22 2005, 11:36 AM']
There are cases where pedophiles have begged to be castrated.  It allowed them to be semi engaged in society.[/quote]
Ignoring the morality dimension of bodily mutilation, there is a difference between a person choosing to have himself castrated and a judge issuing a sentence of castration on a convict.

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 22 2005, 11:36 AM']As opposed to most cases of thievery, pedophilia is a personality disorder.  Which means there is no cure for it.  The symptomatic behavior can be dealt with but the disorder will never be cured.[/quote]
I see your distinction. Are you saying that all personality disorders are incurable? Does that differ from "untreatable"? The reason I ask is because you just stated that the "incurable" pedophile could be "semi engaged in society" (is this "cured" or just "treated"?)

Assuming that prudent restrictions be placed on the individual (prohibit the exposure to children, etc), can pscho-therapy, drugs, or counseling cure a pedophile so that their criminal desires are pushed into remission? My suspicion is that there is not a simple yes/no answer.

The field of psychology, only a couple decades ago, taught that this disorder was "curable." Now it is believed to be "uncurable." Does this mean that there is a 100% chance that the individual will commit the same crime? Is it 60%? Is it 30%? I wonder if any scientific studies attempt to answer this question. At what point does something go from "curable" to "incurable"?

Unfortunately, I don't keep up with the scientific research done in this area, so any citations would be helpful to educate me more.

[mulls]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Apr 22 2005, 06:35 AM'] ...they will never actually repent. [/quote]

yoooooooo be careful with that. God is still God.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Apr 22 2005, 10:36 AM']
There are cases where pedophiles have begged to be castrated. It allowed them to be semi engaged in society.

As opposed to most cases of thievery, pedophilia is a personality disorder. Which means there is no cure for it. The symptomatic behavior can be dealt with but the disorder will never be cured. [/quote]
why do you believe this? Dont you think through God they could be cured?

[toledo_jesus]

I would advocate life in prison after two strikes. Castration would be wrong. Execution would be wrong. Far better to let them live out their days isolated, where they can be studied further.
Psychology can only go so far before God has to pick up the slack.

[franciscan13]

death is far to good for them.lock em away with the least amount of contact with other people. as for those priests found guilty of molesting kids. they're no longer priests and subject them to the same if not worse. they were supposed to men God :angry:

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Apr 22 2005, 01:03 AM'] I've come to the conclusion that pedophilia ought to be a capital crime with a fast-track to the death penalty.


First, the Catechism of the Catholic Church
[b]2266[/b]

[b]2267[/b]


let's review some facts
It is proven that pedophilia is a pathology that cannot be cured
Pedophiles tend to transform into model citizens until they get out of jail
Subconsciously they tend to do everything possible to get in contact with children again

Non-lethal means are insufficient to protect our children from these people who prey on them. I say at the very least a TWO strike system, but I really would rather have one strike and you're executed. It is the only way to protect children from these MONSTERS.

There is basically absolutely no chance of ammendment of life and repentence for these people, that's the definition of a pathology. It is FAR more likely there will be repentence in the face of an execution, and thus the tradiitonal Catholic idea of expiation if they accept death as a just punishment.

SO basically, I contend three things:
1) Execution is the only way to protect society from pedophile monsters
2) Execution is a just punishment for the heinous crime of molesting a child
3) Execution is the best way to help along the SALVATION of the soul of pedophile monsters and help them regain their humanity through repentence, acceptance, and expiation

There are a lot of cases that are very cut-and dry very clear that the person is guilty. Execute these people on the spot. Anyone else, two strikes at MOST. At the very very very very least, they should have life in prison without the possibility of parole for absolutely any reason ever ever ever ever times infinity. [/quote]
I think we should lock them up for life without chance for parol for the first abuse. With the way kids lie these days, and how evil some kids are, it would be horrible for an innocent man be put to death because some kid got made at the guy for something stupid.

And if the guy has done the unthinkable, demonic possession is real, and we do not know why they do these unspeakable things.

I believe that it is only going to get worse because of the amount of porn online and how easy it is for kids to find it.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Socrates]

Fry 'em or lock 'em up for life.

Just keep 'em out of the seminaries and parishes and off the streets.

Personally I favor castration (which used to be the common punishment for sex crimes, even in early American history). Great deterent!

[Norseman82]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 22 2005, 01:18 PM'] it would be horrible for an innocent man be put to death because some kid got made at the guy for something stupid.

[/quote]
I think that statement has convinced me the most of all stated here.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' date='Apr 22 2005, 11:36 AM']

I see your distinction. Are you saying that all personality disorders are incurable? Does that differ from "untreatable"? The reason I ask is because you just stated that the "incurable" pedophile could be "semi engaged in society" (is this "cured" or just "treated"?)


[/quote]
Get ready for another bad example folks!

Personality disorders are vastly different than mood disorders. Mood disorders are generally are caused by an external event or factors, unresolved issues, bad parenting, etc.

If you were to compare it to something else, a mood disorder is like getting bad programming on your computer. (virus, spyware etc)

Where mood disorders are software in this metaphor, personality disorders are the hardware issues. Now in the human brain, you cannot replace the hardware. So you work around it. Generally drug therapy will lessen the symptomatic behavior of personality disorders. Sometimes to the point where the rest of society would never know. Schizophrenics are an excellent example of a personality disorder that can be treated but not cured. You could be working with or going to school with a treated schizophrenic and not know it. The drug therapy for this disease is pretty remarkable.

Pedophilia is a different problem all together. It is a personality disorder but it likens itself more to obsessive types of PDs than others. What makes it even more complex is that most personality disorders, you are born with or you develop through a brain chemistry issue. As stated, most pedophiles were victims of sexual abuse. So this becomes something of sticky situation. It has the origins of a mood disorder then progresses into something chronic.

Is there hope that it can be cured? Sure. But treatment for the symptoms rarely works. I saw an interview with a priest that asked to be castrated and was granted his wish. He said that even though the biological urge had been removed, it was still a struggle for him. (I'm pretty sure he's in a monastary)

[cmotherofpirl]

Castration does not remove the urge to molest children, it simply lessens it.
Most pedophiles do not see what they are doing as wrong, they are simply annoyed they are caught. They can be the most personable likable people you ever would meet. They have an inborn radar as to what children are vulnerable or feel unloved, and take jobs or live in neighborhood wher many potentials are located.
If they are a true pedophile they should be jailed til death without possibility of parole.

[Jaime]

Have you known any pedophiles personally Cmom?

[Matt Black]

The problem with making any crime other than murder (eg: rape, paedophilia) a capital crime is that it removes any disincentive on the part of the offender to spare the life of his victim ie:" if I'm going to fry for rape, I might as well go all the way and kill her too, as I've nothing to lose and in fact that might make my crime more difficult to detect". That's a major problem.

Anther problem that springs to mind is the definition of a paedophile. In the UK (where I am), technically a 16 year old who has sex with his 15-year old girlfriend is guilty of a paedophilic crime and has to go on the Sex Offenders' Register if convicted. Obviously there is a world of difference between such an individual and a fifty-something pervert who 'grooms' his 10-year old victims on a serial basis. The law would need to very carefully distinguish between such scenarios.

Yours in Christ

Matt

[Carrie]

I think there is a misconception about castration here. When a judge orders castration, it is usually a chemical castration, not an actual physical one.

Chemical castration just doesn't work. The offenders take medication to acheive this castration and when they get out, many of them just stop taking the meds, leaving them the way they were.

Another reason chemical castration doesn't work is because sexual abuse does not need the sexual organ to happen. Think about it...someone can easily sexually abuse in many other ways. If the desire is there, they will find a way.

This does not mean I agree with Al when he says they should all be executed. That is purely ridiculous. There are treatments out there, some of which are making strides. Also, as ironmonk said, do we want to take the chance of executing an innocent man or woman?

One more thing to consider...pedophiles who abuse their own biological children have very little recidivism rates, as long as they no longer have contact with their own children. I don't think these people should be executed or have life in prison when the chances of them ever doing it again are very small.

Sexual abuse is a horrible crime, but the punishment needs to fit the crime. Execution is a bit harsh in these cases.

[Jaime]

Castration was introduced into the conversation as an extreme means of treatment. There are cases where pedophiles have requested it.