Ten Myths about Priestly Pedophilia

[cmotherofpirl]

Welcome to phatmass. Most of us are Catholics.
There are 22 different rites within the Catholic Church, all under the teaching authority of Magisterium and Pope.

[argent_paladin]

hot stuff,
I think it is you who are guilty of manipulating statistics.
1. You underreported by half the African American population in America. It is almost 13% more than double the 6% you reported.
2. Your statistics on abuse include non-sexual abuse, including vebal/emotional abuse and neglect. Only 10% of the cases on the National Child Abuse page you cited dealt with sexual abuse.
3. The DOJ stats included underage perpatrators, who made up a sizable percentage of offenders and it also included post-pubescent victims. Neither of these are situations of pedophilia.
4. There is a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia. That doesn't mean there is causation, but the correlation is there. See this [url="http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=4815nobi79tcj?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Pedophilia+and+homosexuality&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc02b"]source[/url]

Further, the two are linked in that they are both disordered sexual appetites. And there is a sense in which saying that a homosexual is evil is correct, although I wouldn't say that myself. A homosexual qua homosexual is evil but a homosexual qua human being is not. Saying that murderers are evil would also be as correct to say. Or pedophiles are evil. If you object to one, you must object to them all. One couldn't even say that Hitler was evil. We use analogy to say that those who commit evil acts are evil themselves.

As the North American Man-Boy Love Association shows, most pedophilia activists are men who want to have relations with boys. There is no similar Woman-girl love, or Man-girl love, etc.

[Jaime]

[quote]You underreported by half the African American population in America. It is almost 13% more than double the 6% you reported[/quote]

Yes its true that almost 13% of the US population is African American. However, since I was referring to African American males you can cut that in half. Also the female population is slightly higher. Hence 6% is an accurate number for my example of twisting statistics.

[quote]Your statistics on abuse include non-sexual abuse, including vebal/emotional abuse and neglect. Only 10% of the cases on the National Child Abuse page you cited dealt with sexual abuse.
[/quote]

The reports that I'm citing do also deal with child abuse overall. But I was careful in using the stats that I reported. Feel free to correct me specifically.

[quote]The DOJ stats included underage perpatrators, who made up a sizable percentage of offenders and it also included post-pubescent victims. Neither of these are situations of pedophilia[/quote]

Yes the DOJ stats are complete. However again I was careful in the statistics I was using. Please feel free to be specific.

[quote]And there is a sense in which saying that a homosexual is evil is correct, [/quote]

THE CHURCH DOES NOT SAY THIS. Homosexual acts regarded as sins against chastity. This includes pre marital sex and masturbation. Do you really want to compare the 15 year old boy who masturbates to Hitler?

Oh and thanks for bringing Hitler into the thread.

Edited April 28, 2005 by jaime

[cmotherofpirl]

play nice.......

[Jaime]

Was I being mean?

If so, I blame it on hotel coffee.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]THE CHURCH DOES NOT SAY THIS. Homosexual acts regarded as sins against chastity. This includes pre marital sex and masturbation. Do you really want to compare the 15 year old boy who masturbates to Hitler?

Oh and thanks for bringing Hitler into the thread. [/quote]




This isn't exactly correct, homosexual acts are intrinsicly disordered, the act itself is always sinful therefore the act itself is evil, union between a man and a women is intrinsticly ordered, it is an act that in and of itself is good, and it is the desecration of the act by misappropriate use that is sinful. Therefore homosexual acts are not comparable to pre marital sex. masturbation maybe but not pre marital sex.

[Jaime]

[quote]This isn't exactly correct, homosexual acts are intrinsicly disordered[/quote]

I've never stated anything to the contrary. Masturbation is also intrinsically disordered. But homosexual acts are considered a sin against chastity. That is where I draw the comparison to premarital or extra marital sex.

[argent_paladin]

[quote]According to the Bureau of Justice 67% of all pedophiles are white and 32% of all pedophiles are african american.

6% of the population are african american males (US Census)

By your math Monoxide, an African American male is six times more likely to be a pedophile.[/quote]

You are still misusing statistics. The Justice stats include men and women. So, 32% of all pedophiles are Africa-American (either men or women). Then you use a stat (6%) that only includes males. You can't do that, unless you assume that ALL pedophiles are male, which is not true. Lets say that 16% of all pedophiles are african american males, then it is 2.5 times more likely that an african american will be a pedophile. But really, you can't do that with those statistics. Either include gender in both terms or exclude it, but you must be consistent.

[argent_paladin]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Apr 24 2005, 03:32 PM'] I think its really important, when discussing percentages and probability, to cite your sources. Without credible substantiation, how do we know you aren't making this up?

Also, I don't think we can trust polls in regards to this. I think we can all agree that most people that call themselves 'Catholic' do not lead Catholic lifestyles. Even more closely related to the subject, is that around %80 percent of those who hate homosexuals and would be considered 'homophobic' are in homosexuals themselves. This is a great illustration of the way people lie about this sort of thing. Especially in regards to scandals. I think this was from the American Journal of Abnormal Psychology, but I'd have to look up the exact source if you care. So I don't really think that there is any point in arguing mathematical probability based on shifty numbers. [/quote]
Odd that you say that it is important to cite sources and then quote stats without sources. And I am very sceptical of the stats you offer here. How, exactly, would they word the survey question:

1. Do you hate homosexuals?

2. But aren't you, in fact, homosexual yourself?

3. Are you sure?

There is no way that anyone would answer these questions truthfully. The only way this information would be made is by clinical observation. So experts would look at those convicted of hate crimes against homosexuals and then interview them carefully and diagnose them as gay. That is anecdotal and very subjective.

Once again, I am not saying that there is a statistical correlation between pedophilia and homosexuality. In fact, depending on how one defines these terms, no pedophile is a homosexual and vice versa, since they are based on one's primary sexual preference. So a pedophile is by definition not attracted to adult members of the same sex, which is the definition of a homosexual.
But it is a whole different game when we are talking about same sex attraction in pedophiles. As I stated before, most high profile pedophilia is male-male.

[Winchester]

Is African-American a synonym for Black? Or are we speaking of people who came from Africa and went through citizenship for America? If the latter (which actually makes semantic sense, the former being an absurdly foolish usage, perhaps even more ridiculous than referring to mere skin color as a determiner in behaviour or culture--Nazi-riffic, as I like to refer to all these bizarre seperations) then perhaps it's a cultural thing along the lines of statutory rape.

I have an idea--leave off statistics, which often are flawed, and deal with the issue: some Bishops behaved exactly as all other segments of society, including our liberal judicial system: they shipped the scumbags around.

Solving the problem: Parents, stand up for your children and deal with the problem directly. Forgiveness is between them and God; it's up to you to arrange the meeting.

[Jaime]

[quote]You are still misusing statistics. The Justice stats include men and women. [/quote]

Yes they include women. [b]Less than 1% of all incarcerated pedophiles are women![/b]
So they are outside of the bell curve and I am not misrepresenting the statistics. Read the report.

Clearly you are missing my point. My point was that statistics can be manipulated to say a lot of things that are patently not true. You cannot base potential disorders on race. Monoxide was making a ridiculous use of the numbers to justify that homosexuals were more likely to be pedophiles. I did the same thing with race to show my point.

[argent_paladin]

hot stuff,
Wait, now I am confused. You distort statistics to show how easily it can be done and then you turn around and defend the same statistics when I point out that you distorted them? You can't be right both times. Either the statistics you brought up about the correlation of blacks and pedophilia is right, which supports monoxides use of statistics (since you yourself said that it was a parallel case). Or, you misused those statistics (deliberately to prove a point), in which case, I was right to call you on your distortions. Which is it? Did you distort (and thus I am right to call you on it) or are they accurate (in which case, Monoxide is right)?

[Jaime]

Argent

This is my point!!

Are my statistics correct on African American men? Yes
Does it mean that this is an accurate interpretation? Absolutely not!!

Statistical interpretation is not an avocation. This is why there are classes (really really hard classes) to learn how to do it accurately. When uneducated people use statistics to "prove" one group is more likely than another, they are doing so to perpetuate a myth and their own bias. And that drives me nuts!!

What is the most telling stat for pedophiles? Most of them were abused as children.

Another example that I've used before.

The months where there is an increase in ice cream consumption there is a parallel increase in drownings. Can I statistically "prove" that ice cream causes drownings? No. Because there is another variable in hot weather.

When its hot people swim more.
When its hot, people eat more ice cream.

Its the same thing with all statistics. You need to see if the there is a strong correlation and if there are any other variables. Otherwise you can prove anything using statistics.

[cmotherofpirl]

It all

lies.

d--n lies,

or

statistics

Edited April 29, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Jaime]

Exactly Cmom

And we do not want to manipulate stats to promote fear or bias to any particular group.