Fatima

[mark4IHM]

That all religions should unite under a common, universal brotherhood has been the goal of Freemasonry for centuries. It is opposed to the constant teaching of hte Church that unity is only possible under the one, true God, as taught by the Catholic Church. Efforts to get around this may be well meaning, but they are not Catholic, and should be opposed.

Because Our Lady of Fatima was and is true to God alone, I cannot believe she would approve of the plans for her shrine. Does that mean that she too is narrow-minded, extremist, and fanatical? If she is, I'm right with her.

[cmotherofpirl]

what he said!

[Aloysius]

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:blink:

[Donna]

"We're in trouble."(Part 765)

If this isn't stopped

And solemn reparation made for it

Get ready for more chastisments

Physical and spiritual.

My Holy Lady of God! I am so sorry....

Blessed Francisco and Jacinta, get the usurping Herodians, unrepentent, out of the Church!

[hyperdulia again]

my, but this is disturbing...

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Pray to St. Michael to protect the Church, I'm sure they will not allow this. I have a hard time believe that this is a serious thought.

On the other hand, what kind of pagans would visit the site where Our Lady appeared?

Edited November 12, 2003 by thedude

[Ellenita]

what kind of pagans would visit a site where Our Lady appeared?

You might find some who would be attracted to the idea since they often worship a goddess rather than a male god and might therefore feel some sort of affinity with her. (I'm not suggesting this is right however!)

Personally I find the idea of a religious shrine which has importance and significance for one particular faith having images from different faiths included in it quite bizarre. It can only lead to causing offence! There is a rather beautiful mosque in Cordoba in Spain inside of which was built a baroque church when the area was reconquered from the Moorish people. Two places of worship, one inside the other, and I can honestly say that although the building is very beautiful in terms of its architecture, it is the only church I have ever been into where I really didn't feel any sense of God's spirit - it just felt confused.

And if we ever needed any evidence that mixing the faiths in terms of their symbolism and places of importance just doesn't work we need only look to Jerusalem!

[Anna]

what kind of pagans would visit the site where Our Lady appeared?

Well, it is a spot where a miracle of the sun is documented to have happened, so nature worshippers of sorts might think there's some kinda "power" or "energy" to be tapped or channelled there.... :huh:

[Donna]

(From EWTN)

Fatima

Question from Scott Burke on 11-11-2003:

Father,

I am going to attach an article from the Portugal News on what appears to be an ecumenical revamping of the shrine at Fatima. Please see the questions following the article. By the way, the article can be found at:

http://the-news.net/cgi/story.pl?title=F%E...ine&edition=727

I am going to assume that the content of the article is accurate although I can't find much commentary on it over the internet. I sent a copy to Raymond Arroyo at the World Over News....maybe he can bring some attention to this.

(Here follows the article in its entirety)

I know this is a long article so I will ask two short but maybe not so simple questions:

Q1.) Does scripture or tradition permit such a thing as this? How do we as Catholic Christians build something and then allow and it sounds like even encourage pagans to pray to their gods in the structure?

Q2.) How does a lay Catholic go about stopping something like this? I am asking this assuming that the plans to have an interfaith shrine at Fatima go against both scripture and tradition.

Thanks,

Scott

Answer by Fr. John Echert on 11-11-2003:

I am opposed to any inter-religious or ecumenical efforts which fail to operate under the explicit and manifest principles that salvation is possible only through Jesus Christ and within the Catholic Church. There can be no compromise on these absolute truths of the Faith, and there is no room for dialogue on any alternative. We do others a great disservice, which further puts at risk their own salvation, if we affirm them in the errors of false religions.

IF THE ARTICLE IS ACCURATE and the intention is to turn Fatima into an inter-religious "centre where all the religions of the world will gather to pay homage to their various gods," then I condemn such a project as contrary to Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the whole spiritual message of Our Lady of Fatima, who called instead for the conversion of sinners and the consecration of Russia, not the honor of false gods and the promotion of false religions.

Allow me to quote from the great encyclical of Pope Pius XI, “Mortalium Animos” (On Religious Unity), which bears upon this topic:

10. So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it. To the one true Church of Christ, we say, which is visible to all, and which is to remain, according to the will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it. During the lapse of centuries, the mystical Spouse of Christ has never been contaminated, nor can she ever in the future be contaminated, as Cyprian bears witness: "The Bride of Christ cannot be made false to her Spouse: she is incorrupt and modest. She knows but one dwelling, she guards the sanctity of the nuptial chamber chastely and modestly." The same holy Martyr with good reason marveled exceedingly that anyone could believe that "this unity in the Church which arises from a divine foundation, and which is knit together by heavenly sacraments, could be rent and torn asunder by the force of contrary wills." For since the mystical body of Christ, in the same manner as His physical body, is one, compacted and fitly joined together, it were foolish and out of place to say that the mystical body is made up of members which are disunited and scattered abroad: whosoever therefore is not united with the body is no member of it, neither is he in communion with Christ its head.

I recommend the entire encyclical to our readers, available on the EWTN library at:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P11MORTA.HTM

Thanks, Scott

Father Echert

[hyperdulia again]

whenn i fell into a certain fachochta (it's yiddish and if you don't know what it means don't ask, if you know how to spell it properly tho' please tell) gnostic faith, i tthought the blessed virgin was a goddess, so perhaps some pagans think so as well.

[M.SIGGA]

Marian shrines in India and throughout Asia are venerated by Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus b/c they incorporate her and Jesus and the saints into their pantheon of gods and good spirits. Anti-Christian Muslims in India also protect shrines to Our Lady of Fatima b/c her title's namesake is the daughter of Muhammed. Where is the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith when you need'em? European Christianity is a hot mess. Cardinal Ratzinger, hello?

This might be a chance for Bls. Jacinta and Francesco to get their last miracle when all those pagans will be converted at Fatima.

[MC Just]

That all religions should unite under a common, universal brotherhood has been the goal of Freemasonry for centuries. It is opposed to the constant teaching of hte Church that unity is only possible under the one, true God, as taught by the Catholic Church. Efforts to get around this may be well meaning, but they are not Catholic, and should be opposed.

Because Our Lady of Fatima was and is true to God alone, I cannot believe she would approve of the plans for her shrine. Does that mean that she too is narrow-minded, extremist, and fanatical? If she is, I'm right with her.

Yeah!!! That's what I'm talking about!! I highly oppose Freemasonry. I know it's a devilish plan of their's to make a one world religion and government. That's why I get a little worried when the Vatican seems to be involved in such activities. I once heard that there was masons in the Vatican is this true?

[Ellenita]

I once heard there were masons in the Vatican is this true?

Well now, this may be another one of those 'Catholic Urban Legends'!!

However it has most certainly been suggested in 'expose' programmes on TV in the past, along I might add, with Opeus Dei being a sinister secret society within the church!

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some masons in the Vatican. As an organisation it seems to be highly successful in infiltrating establishments which have power. In the UK for example it is common knowledge that there are judges, senior police officers and certainly members of the royal family who are active masons. Of course they all wear the face of masonary which says 'we're just an organisation which raises money for charities'!

Although I would not want to dispute anyone's calling to the priesthood, I bet that there are some people who the higher they climb in the church become more involved in politics and less in their calling as a priest - masonary would certainly try to capitalise on that.

[M.SIGGA]

This is the shrine renovation website (está en español) but you can still see the new design: http://www.santuario-fatima.pt/GECA.htm

I think it looks too much like a mall and it is definitely less Catholic looking :(

[PedroX]

This makes me so angry. I know that C'mom is right, and theologians don't run the church, but this kind of stuff just fuels the fire of people like Jack Chick. And that new building is so ugly!

My prayers tonight will be against this, and for protection of the church, around the world.

peace...