learning2breathe Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Apr 22 2005, 10:21 AM'] Good call. I'll remember that argument. [/quote] That is a great arguement...thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 I say welcome home as well. I am glad that the death of John Paul the Great has brought so much grace upon the world and truly worked great miracles in the lives of others. One Polish friar was talking about literally thousands of people swarming to him for Confession after the pope died. Confession, coming back to the faith...all beautiful things. I was caught in moral relativism for a couple years as a teenager. Not a fun time...lots of trying to convince yourself that you're right and plenty of slavery to your passions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aloha918 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 in masturbation you are LYING to your body that you are having sex......and that is what it is.....you are making your body think that you are are having sex, therefore LYING to it!......and obviously other unholy things.........lust is a sin........lying is a sin.....masturbation is a sin.....there shouldnt be a doubt about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='Briguy' date='Apr 22 2005, 07:32 AM'] infinite, If you are sure M. is wrong then you should not be doing it. You need to think about why you feel it is wrong. If it causes Sin in your life, then it is wrong. If you feel it is wrong, "just because" then you should think deeply about that. I said before I just cannot see M in and of itself as wrong. M is not mentioned in the Bible. Fornication and Adultery deal with a sexual act between two people. Let us not make more of something then we should or make something into what it is not. -Brian [/quote] I dont necessarily feel its wrong (sometimes i do), but i know that the catholic church recognizes it as a perversion. I think there is some reference in the bible about it (something about not dropping seed on the ground). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Apr 22 2005, 01:04 PM'] I dont necessarily feel its wrong (sometimes i do), but i know that the catholic church recognizes it as a perversion. I think there is some reference in the bible about it (something about not dropping seed on the ground). [/quote] That would be the seed of Onan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='return2truth' date='Apr 22 2005, 09:29 AM'] One of the BIGGEST obstacles I am facing is my addiction to masturbation. I have indulged in this practice on average once a day, every day for the last seventeen years. [/quote] yeh....me too (7 years, every day). Which makes it even harder to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Apr 22 2005, 12:04 PM'] I dont necessarily feel its wrong (sometimes i do), but i know that the catholic church recognizes it as a perversion. I think there is some reference in the bible about it (something about not dropping seed on the ground). [/quote] feelings can be manipulated. It doesn't have to feel wrong to be wrong. It is like now, they can inject chemicals that will make you depressed or happy on command. Does that "make" you either of those things? No, not really. Masturbation isn't going to be wrong because it feels wrong, it is wrong because 1) God told us not to 2) it doesn't lead to life 3) it leads away from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
return2truth Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Apr 22 2005, 12:08 PM']That would be the seed of Onan.[/quote] I never felt Onan's sin was that of masturbations as much as it was a defiance of God's direct commandment. Actually, I think it is more a justification for the sin of contraception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='return2truth' date='Apr 22 2005, 12:21 PM'] I never felt Onan's sin was that of masturbations as much as it was a defiance of God's direct commandment. Actually, I think it is more a justification for the sin of contraception. [/quote] why do you think it is for contraception alone? Couldnt it apply to both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Apr 22 2005, 12:14 PM'] yeh....me too (7 years, every day). Which makes it even harder to give up. [/quote] Yes it is harder to give up after that long, but the process is still the same. Sometimes though it is easiest not to focus on the giving of something up but focus on gaining something. If you seek to follow Jesus more closely and read the stuff, you will understand and what is holding you back from him (i.e. masturbation) will disappear. HOwever, this does not mean that you should still masturbate while seeking to follow Jesus. You need to resist that as much as possible as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
return2truth Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Apr 22 2005, 12:26 PM'] why do you think it is for contraception alone? Couldnt it apply to both? [/quote] It could if he was shown to be masturbating, but he wasn't. He was having sex and like a great many men of today, pulled out at the last second to keep his sister-in-law from getting pregnant. God specifically told Onan to get his brother's wife pregnant, instead he had sex with her for the sake of having sex. That is why God punished him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
return2truth Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Apr 22 2005, 12:34 PM'] HOwever, this does not mean that you should still masturbate while seeking to follow Jesus. You need to resist that as much as possible as well. [/quote] When I began to pray the Rosary as an aid to help me overcome my addiction, I still gave into it a few times. Afterwords, I felt like I had betrayed what little grace of self-control I had been given and considered abandoning my attempts at reconciling my catholic faith. But I kept praying. The Holy Spirit had given me faith and I wasn't about to waste it. I may yet still give in again, but I will not give up the faith. It has given me the strength that has gotten me this far. Faith truly is like a mustard seed; it needs only a little care for it to grow strong and true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
return2truth Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote name='return2truth' date='Apr 22 2005, 12:41 PM'] ...like a great many men of today, pulled out at the last second to keep his sister-in-law from getting pregnant... [/quote] I didn't mean to imply that many men of today have sex with their sisters-in-law, but that they pull out during sex. I hope that clearly things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 :leave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 [quote]God specifically told Onan to get his brother's wife pregnant, instead he had sex with her for the sake of having sex. That is why God punished him.[/quote] Actually there are arguments that Onan's sin was one (or all) of three. He was commanded by God (and by Jewish law) to take his dead brother's wife as his own, which he was happy to do. By law, all of his dead brother's land and livestock now belonged to him. The only way he would lose possession of the land was if his brother's wife had a son. Then it would all be transferred to that son. By "not fullfilling" his requirements (euphemism for homeschoolmom) he was in fact stealing his brother's land. So you have the argument that his sin was one of masturbation, contraception, or thievery. (or any combination of the three) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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