Life Teen Abuses

[jbike]

Standing around the altar and changing the dismissal are two of SEVERAL abuses in the mass at most churchs. I hope we're not just focusing on the youth because a lot of folks like to pick on them without looking at other more important matters and yes I think there are more important matters althought following rubrics are very important to me.

Being someone formally involved with LT, I've seen articles from cannon lawyers on both sides as far as standing around the altar (most say it's wrong), but I'm still waiting on an official statement from LifeTeen and the Vatican altought LT is probably just a blip on the radar to them. Maybe their silence on the matter says what a priority they hold this matter in? The Pope recently released an Encyclial on the Eucharist and he didn't mention standing around the altar did he?

Here's my voting for whatever God's Church says. Good to know there are folks out there who care...

[jbike]

by the way...what does "nm" stand for. I see that a lot. thank ya very much...

[littleflower+JMJ]

oh that was me...sorry about that....

that means nevermind...

yeah....so thats what it means... :unsure:

[Katholikos]

Something that I have heard that they do in Europe (I don't know how true it is) is that they are normally gathered around the alter.

Now, if they were on their knees, I have no problem with it, but I do have a problem with standing.

Some people when asked "If Jesus was in this room, what would you do?"

Some answer: "I would buy Him a beer and give Him a hug."

I got a news flash for those people... No you wouldn't, Jesus is God, you would drop to your knees.

When God is present, we need to be on our knees to show proper respect. I don't want to hear anyone whine that their knees hurt or it's uncomfortalbe...

Our Pope, in his present physical condition, still gets on his knees for Christ.... no one who is healthier than the Pope has any excuse not to get on their knees.

I once heard a story from a Priest, he was talking about being in a room with two nuns... the Eucharist was displayed, they dropped to their knees on a concrete floor.

If people do not realize that the Eucharist is God, and doesn't make sense that more than likely, they could be in a state of mortal sin when taking the Eucharist? Has it really helped save the souls allow people to profane the Eucharist?

Those in lifeteen... I urge you to set an example, make know the fact of the True Pressence, be the one that is on your knees... speak out for proper respect for Christ.

God Bless, Your Servant in Christ,

ironmonk

I didn't observe this happening even once when I was there, in ten countries, nine years ago. ???

[Katholikos]

Sorry to break it to you, but this did not start at Lifeteen . . . this started in the Ecumenical movement in the 1970's where non-catholics were present at Catholic Masses and we didn't want them to feel left out, so they invited them up for a blessing from the priest rather than communion . ..

I think it's BS . . . but I don't think it would be too bad for someone to come up to adore Christ (if they were non catholic, in mortal sin, or couldn't recieve for some reason) and then the priest were to Hold up the Blessed Sacrament and say somehting liek "Receive Jesus in Your Heart" . . . so they could make a spiritual communion . . . cuz quite frankly people staying in the pews and having to crawl over them to get communion is annoying . . . but that's not the only reason, I just think it would be a nice gesture . . . if the Church says no, then no . . . I can see why Blessings shouldn't happen at that time thouhg . . .

BY THE WAY!! What really chaps my ass (my poor donkey gets so dry, I need to give him more water) . . . is when EXTRAORDINAY ministers of the Eucharist put their hands on kids and give them little blessings or make the sign of the cross on them!!!!

Arghh . .. don't they realize they might have some particles of the Blessed Sacrament on their fingers????? Don't the realize they don't have any authority to bless???? Don't they realize it looks stupid????!!!!! Makes me so mad~!!!!!!

I never saw it in the 70's, and had never heard of it until I saw it at LT, but perhaps it just became a "permanent" (unauthorized) liturgical abuse by LT. Many people think it started with LT. How did you learn this? I'd like to be sure of my facts before I repeat them. I apologize for the error.

No one who is not in a state of grace and properly disposed to receive Holy Communion should be in the Communion queue. It is not necessary for those making a spiritual communion to be nose-to-nose with the priest. The Church has already said "no." We're to follow the written instructions which have been approved by Rome. If it isn't in the rubrics, it shouldn't be done.

Yes, "blessings in lieu of Communion" given by so-called EM's is another very serious abuse. They act like they're priests. It disturbs my tranquility -- in fact, it makes me furious.

I believe hands should be purified after touching the Eucharist, because of the particles, but no provision for that has been made for EM's that I'm aware of.

paz y bien

Likos

[Ash Wednesday]

I have suggested that a sociological study on the long-term effects of LT should be done. What are the kids in LT like when they're 30? Faithful Catholics, or Cafeteria Catholics? Or Catholics at all?

Very good question.

So IS the "blessing" from the priest to someone coming up but not receiving Communion forbidden by the Church? I didn't know it was -- they've been doing this at my parish long before Lifeteen started.

I don't like LifeTeen very much, at least the way the parish does it here. I can't stand it when they don't have kneeling at the consecration -- at any mass, Lifeteen or not. They can make Mass joyful without being so half-donkeyed and corny and dumbing it down for an "MTV audience." If teens don't have the attention span to sit through a mass, then maybe they're sitting in front of a TV or a computer a little too much.

You know what bugged me about Lifeteen at the parish here, is there is a musician that plays the guitar very quietly while the priest is saying certain prayers in the Mass, and during the Gospel reading.

I. Can. NOT. Stand. That.

It's SO CHEESY!!!

That and I don't like it when they hold hands during the Our Father, either. It's CHEESY!!!!

In my experience in Europe, actually, the Masses are more orthodox and I don't see as much cheesiness or obvious liturgical abuse that I'm aware of. And I've never seen people gather around the altar there, either.

I WILL say that I'm inclined to think that the liturgical abuses are not just a Lifeteen thing or as a result specifically of Lifeteen. Liturgical abuses in the Novus Ordo are everywhere. (I don't know a lot about the status of the Latin Mass because the only ones around me are 2 hours away) I'm inclined to think that it's yet another result of the sloppiness that came about in the 1970s.

I would gladly drive an hour or so to attend Mass somewhere else if Lifeteen was all they offered here. Thank God it isn't!

*zips up silver flame proof suit*

Edited November 6, 2003 by Ash Wednesday

[BLAZEr]

Standing around the altar and changing the dismissal are two of SEVERAL abuses in the mass at most churchs.  I hope we're not just focusing on the youth because a lot of folks like to pick on them without looking at other more important matters and yes I think there are more important matters althought following rubrics are very important to me.

Being someone formally involved with LT, I've seen articles from cannon lawyers on both sides as far as standing around the altar (most say it's wrong), but I'm still waiting on an official statement from LifeTeen and the Vatican altought LT is probably just a blip on the radar to them.  Maybe their silence on the matter says what a priority they hold this matter in?  The Pope recently released an Encyclial on the Eucharist and he didn't mention standing around the altar did he?

Here's my voting for whatever God's Church says.  Good to know there are folks out there who care...

I just thought I would point out what SHOULD be going on in good liturgy. . . this is from a Speech By Cardinal Arinze who is the Secretary for the Congregation of Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments:

Full Text of Cardinal Arinze's Speech

Liturgical music promotes worship. The Gregorian chant has an honored place in the history of the Latin rite. It is to be noted that even the young people today do appreciate it. Most liturgical singing will understandably be in the mother tongue. The Diocesan or National Music Commission should see that such texts are suitable from the theological and musical points of view before they are approved for Church use.

The Roman Missal wisely notes the importance of common gestures by the worshipping congregation (cf GIRM, nos. 42-44). Examples are times for the congregation to stand, kneel or sit. Bishop's Conferences can and do, make some specifications. Care should be taken not to appear like regimenting the congregation, as if it were an army, Some flexibility should be allowed, more so as it is easy to hurt people's eucharistic sensitivity with reference, for example, to kneeling or standing.

Church architecture also influences active participation. If a church is built and the seats are arranged as in an amphitheatre or as in a banquet, the undeclared emphasis may be horizontal attention to one another, rather than vertical attention to God. In this sense the celebration of Mass facing the people demands from the priest and altar servers a high level of discipline, so that as from the offertory of the Mass it be seen clearly that both priest and people are turned towards God, not towards one another. We come to Mass primarily to adore God, not to affirm one another, although this is not excluded.

Some people think that liturgical renewal means the removal of kneelers from Church pews., the knocking down of altar rails or the positioning of the altar in the middle of the sitting area of the people. The Church has never said any such thing. Nor does liturgical restoration mean iconoclasm or the removal of all statues and sacred images. These should be displayed, albeit with good judgment. And the altar of the Blessed Sacrament should be outstanding for its beauty and honored prominence, otherwise in some so-called restored churches one could rightly lament: "They have taken my Lord away, and I don't know where they have put him " (Jn 20:13).

[BLAZEr]

more . . .

The major challenge is to help the lay faithful appreciate their dignity as baptized persons. On this follows their role at the Eucharistic sacrifice and other liturgical acts. They are the people of God. They are insiders. Their share as readers of lessons, as leaders of song and as the people offering with and through the priest is based on Baptism. The high point is when they communicate at the Eucharistic table. This crowns their participation at the Eucharistic sacrifice.

There should be no attempt to clericalize the laity. This could happen when, for example, lay people chosen as extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion no longer see this role as being called on to help when the ordinary ministers (bishop, priest and deacon) are not available in sufficient numbers to cope with the high number of communicants. When the extraordinary ministers see their role as a power display to show that what the priest can do, the lay faithful can do too, then we have a problem. How else can we explain the sad error of the lay faithful struggling around the altar to open the tabernacle or to grab the sacred vessels -- all against sane liturgical norms and pure good sense?

We have also the opposite mistake of trying to laicize the clergy. When the priest no longer wishes to bless the people with the formula "May Almighty God bless you ", but prefers the seemingly democratic wording, "May Almighty God bless us ", then we have a confusion of roles. The same thing happens when some priests think that they should not concelebrate a Mass but should just participate as lay people in order to show more solidarity with the lay faithful. "In liturgical celebrations ", says SC, "whether as a minister or as one of the faithful, each person should perform his role by doing solely and totally what the nature of things and liturgical norms require of him" (SC, no. 28).

A task always to be attended to is the theological, liturgical and spiritual formation of extraordinary ministers of the Holy Eucharist, of catechists, of other pastoral agents and of the lay faithful in general. Often mistakes are not due to bad will but due to lack of knowledge. It is then that political models of power sharing and power struggle begin to smuggle themselves into the sanctuary. Members of Diocesan and National Liturgical Commissions are to be thanked and encouraged for all that they do to bring in more light and therefore more harmony.

[Ash Wednesday]

btw...

Some people when asked "If Jesus was in this room, what would you do?"

Some answer: "I would buy Him a beer and give Him a hug."

Thats absurd! He's the Son of God! He could take water and make it into the finest German Pilsner mankind has ever known in the blink of an eye!

That in itself SHOULD drive some to their knees. :lol:

[BLAZEr]

btw...

Thats absurd! He's the Son of God! He could take water and make it into the finest German Pilsner mankind has ever known in the blink of an eye!

That in itself SHOULD drive some to their knees.

oh my gosh! Jesus could make amesome beer! oh man . . . if Jesus is ever in the same room with me, and he lets me get my face off the ground, I'm so gonna ask him if he will treat me to a beer . . . and then I'm gonna drink it with my face on the ground again!!

Have mercy Lord on my casualness!

[JP2Iloveyou]

Standing around the altar and changing the dismissal are two of SEVERAL abuses in the mass at most churchs.  I hope we're not just focusing on the youth because a lot of folks like to pick on them without looking at other more important matters and yes I think there are more important matters althought following rubrics are very important to me.

Being someone formally involved with LT, I've seen articles from cannon lawyers on both sides as far as standing around the altar (most say it's wrong), but I'm still waiting on an official statement from LifeTeen and the Vatican altought LT is probably just a blip on the radar to them.  Maybe their silence on the matter says what a priority they hold this matter in?  The Pope recently released an Encyclial on the Eucharist and he didn't mention standing around the altar did he?

Here's my voting for whatever God's Church says.  Good to know there are folks out there who care...

notice, the Vatican shouldn't have to say anything. The GIRM already makes clear that thte only people to be in the sanctuary during the Consecration are the priest and other ministers (i.e. altar servers, lectors, acolytes). Even the EMEs are not to be in the sanctuary. The GIRM only tells us what we SHOULD do. It would never be finished if it told what we should NOT do. It is not at all uncommon now to hear people's cell phones go off in church. I even saw a guy talking on a phone on his way up to receive Communion once. Are they going to print in the GIRM that it is illicit to talk on a cell phone during Mass or to smoke? That's been the complaint about holding hands during the Our Father. "Well," some say, "the GIRM doesn't say not to, so we must be able to do it." Again, it doesn't say not to smoke, or talk on a phone, or whisper to your neighbor, so those things must be OK as well.

[JP2Iloveyou]

With regard to blessings, it is licit for a priest to give a blessing to people who for whatever reason cannot receive Communion that day. They may be in a state of mortal sin, broken the fast, or not be Catholic. Anyway, I have seen this done by priests who I KNOW follow the rubrics to the letter, so I am quite certain that it is OK to do.

Once, when I was an EME at a youth Mass (mostly 5th and 6th graders at a camp) the priest before Communio told anyone not receiving to come up for a blessing, but he said they could go to ANYONE to have it done, not just to him. As you can probably imagine, I was quite shocked, but I didn't say anything so as not to interrupt Mass, and figured everyone would receive anyway and it wouldn't be a big deal. Well, as luck would have it, one little girl came to me and had her arms crossed, the sign that she wanted a blessing. Now, I obviously knew that I did not have the power nor the authority to give a blessing, so I just said, "God bless you," like we would say after someone sneezes. I mean, what was I supposed to do? You can't very well explain to a 5th grader why Father is mistaken and only he can give a blessing, but you also don't want to hurt her feelings.

I think this all stems from a false sense of humility among priests sometimes. Many priests don't wear their clerics anymore so as not to seem "distant" from the laity. They try to allow the laity to read the homily sometimes and to give out blessings. Part of being humble is acknowledging your gifts that God has given you. Clearly, the priesthood of Jesus Christ is a gift and should be acknowledged by priests. Priests are not better than a lay person, but they do have a higher calling. In some places, members of the laity are even being invited to read parts of the Eucharistic prayer. The Consecration is for a priest what marital intercourse is for a husband and wife. It is the fulfillment of their vocational calling. Just as a husband would never ask a priest to go sleep with his wife so as not to be more "priviledged" than the priest in the fact that he can have sex and the priest can't, a priest should never ask a lay man or woman to come up to the altar with him and help him offer Mass.

[BLAZEr]

I can't find the norm, so I'm gonna bite my tongue . . . but we were instructed here in Austin that the new GIRM forbids it . . . I'm looking.

Edited November 6, 2003 by BLAZEr

[BLAZEr]

Gotta Love Bishop Chaput:

Communion procession offers opportunity

to teach reverence

February 12, 2003

Denver Catholic Register

 

 

As members of the community move forward to receive holy Communion during Mass, parents will often bring their small children along. Over the years, it has become a custom in many parishes for these children to receive a blessing. I don't really know where this practice began, but it's worth some reflection.

Usually the children in line will look up expectantly at the person distributing holy Communion. The minister then responds by doing one of several things: He or she may pat the child's head, or touch the head in a sign of blessing, or mark the child's forehead with a sign of the cross. As warm and well intentioned as the gesture may be, in the context of the liturgy, the Communion procession really isn't the time for a blessing of children or adults who are unable to receive Communion.

There are times in the liturgical year when the laity assist in specific acts of blessing, such as the blessing of throats or the distribution of ashes. These are clearly indicated in the Book of Blessings. But extraordinary ministers of holy Communion do not ordinarily have a commission to bless in the name of the Church, as priests and deacons do. At this point in the liturgy, they have a very specific function: to collaborate with the clergy in the distribution of holy Communion.

As we'll explore in a later column, the blessing of the assembly properly occurs at the end of the Mass. As the body of Christ, the assembly is blessed together before we depart to live the fruits of the liturgy.

What would be appropriate for children to do who accompany their parents in the Communion procession, and adults who do not receive Communion?

The Communion procession is an opportunity for parents to begin to teach their children about the great gift of the Eucharist. First of all, children could learn to give reverence to the Lord hidden under the forms of bread and wine. Children can already learn from their parents, and others receiving holy Communion, to give honor to the Lord by bowing reverently.

Parents and catechists should start teaching the mystery of the Eucharist at an early age. Children will soon begin to desire to receive holy Communion. This earnest desire to receive our Lord sacramentally is traditionally called a "spiritual communion." Regrettably, we don't talk about spiritual communion as we once did. But Thomas Aquinas, Alphonsus Liguori and many other great saints strongly encouraged spiritual communion as a practice.

Both children and adults can make a spiritual communion. They may come forward with their arms crossed and bow before the Eucharist. Then the priest, deacon or extraordinary minister could say to them kindly, "Receive the Lord Jesus in your heart." This is not a blessing, but an invitation to worship, so no gestures are made.

This spiritual communion would more authentically carry out the spirit of the liturgy. Being faithful to the truths of the sacramental celebration allows all of us, young and old, to enter more deeply into worship.

I suggested what Bishop Chaput suggests earlier, that we go forward and the minister says "Receive Jesus in your Heart" . . . I don't claim to have come up with it myself, I'm sure that I got it from him and didn't remember it.

[BLAZEr]

Liturgy Series Part 18

Mass takes its name from 'dismissal'

February 26, 2003

Denver Catholic Register

 

 

In our reflection on the liturgy this week, we're drawing close to the conclusion of Mass.

After Communion, when everyone has received our Lord, extraordinary ministers may be sent to visit the sick. They take with them not only the love of the assembled parish community to share with the homebound, but Christ himself in Communion. This is a privilege and also a responsibility. They should go directly to their destinations without delay — and our prayers should accompany them.

For the rest of the assembly, a moment of silent thanksgiving should follow for the gift of the Eucharist. The General Instruction on the Roman Missal also notes that this is an appropriate time for a hymn of thanksgiving or praise sung by the entire congregation (GIRM, 88).

The celebrant then stands and says, "Let us pray." The assembly also rises in momentary silence as we gather up the fruits of the Mass. We stand not only to be attentive, but also to join ourselves to the prayer of the celebrant, for the Prayer after Communion closes the Communion Rite. The text of this prayer always asks that the gift of holy Communion be made manifest in our lives. It's a short prayer, so the celebrant should pronounce it clearly while the assembly listens attentively. The assembly then gives assent with a resounding "Amen."

Brief announcements may follow. Then the priest or deacon will indicate, "Bow your head and pray for God's blessing." In a posture of reverence, we do just that: pray for His blessing. The celebrant gives the blessing and one of the following is said: "Go in the peace of Christ" or "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord" or, "The Mass is ended, go in peace." During the Easter season, we add "Alleluia," which is often sung. In fact, I think it should be sung at every Mass during this special time of rejoicing.

This simple exchange, with its several variations, speaks profoundly about the Church's understanding of the celebration of the Eucharist in our lives.

The word "Mass" actually comes from the word "dismissal." In fact, the Mass is named for the action that completes it: to dismiss or send forth the assembly.

Let's look at the words: "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord." We are invited to depart with the peace of our Lord — the peace the world cannot give. In the midst of our troubles or joy, we are encouraged to hold in our hearts the confidence that Christ remains with us. We experience this reality in an active prayer life, and we see it in the presence of Christ's Church, his mystical body, of which we're each an essential part.

"To love and serve the Lord:" This accents the common priesthood of every baptized individual. Each person leaving the Mass is urged to live out the benefits of the celebration. Whether young or old, married or single, ordained or consecrated, we are sent out to imitate the love of the Lord we have experienced in the Eucharist, through service to our neighbor.

And our response is simple and heartfelt: Together, the assembly answers, "Thanks be to God!" for the privilege to take part in the timeless gift of the Eucharist and to live it out in our lives.