Life Teen Abuses

[Katholikos]

Life Teen was started in a suburb of my city (Phoenix). The Life Teen national and international headquarters are at St. Timothy's Catholic "Community" (they don't call it Church anymore) in Mesa, Arizona.

As the old phatmassers know, I've written about my objections to the abuses at the Life Teen Mass at St. Tim's many times. I'm often a minority of one. Those who say how great LT is don't realize the harm done by the abuses. I have suggested that a sociological study on the long-term effects of LT should be done. What are the kids in LT like when they're 30? Faithful Catholics, or Cafeteria Catholics? Or Catholics at all?

Dave got it right. If the laws of the Church are disregarded with regard to liturgy, how can we expect that they will be respected and obeyed in other matters?

If any LT liturgy is obedient to the liturgical laws of the Church, it isn't because they don't have a bad example from the founder of LT, who is the pastor at St. Tim's. The LT model is not obedient to Church law.

I've described the liturgical abuses at St. Tim's in detail, so I won't do it again (unless someone asks). But it's more akin to a football rally than a Mass. Warning: wear your ear plugs.

The priest-founder of LT is orthodox, so he says, but he has structured LT his own way, and he is definitely not liturgically orthodox.

The abominable practice of giving "blessings in lieu of Communion" started at the Life Teen masses in Mesa and has been exported all over the country and overseas. The other abuses mentioned -- e.g., standing around the altar at the consecration, the added ending, etc. -- are also part of the model for LT Masses.

We're waiting for our new bishop. (Our former bishop is facing trial for a fatal hit and run accident.) I've got my letter of protest about Life Teen ready. Many of its abuses have spread to the wider community.

There is no reason the Life Teen program can't be obedient to Church law AND effective! Teaching obedience -- not disobedience -- to teens is our duty and responsibility.

I've put on my full body armor, awaiting your responses.

JMJ Likos

[jasJis]

I base my opinion of LifeTeen on the Faith development of hundreds of teens I've known for years in my parish and contrast that to the kids I went to high school with and other Catholic highschool kids I know now.

LifeTeen isn't perfect, but the good far outweighs the bad. Get over it.

That's why Youth ministry in the Catholic Church is in such a sad state. People are always ripping at what ever program there is, until you have such a dry ministry, no kids care to join, or you are left with liberals who don't care what the Bishop says, much less anybody else.

[breauxlg]

Hmmmmmmmm,

First off, Peter knew Jesus was God, and not only did he not walk around on his knees, he gave Him advice as though he thought Jesus wouldn't know better and he denied Him and abandoned Him. Of course, we might be better rocks than Peter was, so maybe we would stay on our knees in front of Jesus instead of hugging Him. I would hope that I would hug Him, but I really don't know that I just wouldn't just deny Him.

Also, I can't see Jesus saying "Get away from the table until I've eaten and then I'll bring you some bread so you can eat where I don't have to be so close to you.

[Katholikos]

Get over it? Get over teaching our children to disregard Church law? "If a law isn't to your liking, ignore it. You only have to obey the laws you like. Who needs laws anyway?" That's the lesson LT is teaching. It's Protestant in its philosophy, to the core. "I'll do it my way, and to h-e-double toothpicks with the Church."

The model of Life Teen is "The Mass as Entertainment." And by all means, teens must be entertained at all times, even in Church. We can't come to Mass and be entertained afterwards, it has to be integrated entertainment -- never a moment without being entertained.

What happens when a teen grows up and finds the Mass "boring" and not geared for his entertainment?

The Holy Mass is a sacrifice. Are sacrifices "entertaining"? The LT Masses are "fun," so the kids say. So let's all go to the sacrifice and have some fun.

JMJ Likos

[jasJis]

That's the difference in our perspectives.

Get over it. LT does not teach disobedience to the Church. That is your opinion, not my parish pastor, Bishop, Diocesan Liturgist, etc.

It is your opinion that the LT Mass is Entertainment. I don't see it. Relevant, yes. Requireing mental participation, yes. Music and liturgy that is spiritually touching, yes. Shallow entertainment? NO! The mass does allow cultural differences in style and tone. I don't find it irreverent at all.

The Mass is a Sacrifice AND a Celebration. There is room for both solemnity and joy.

Our opinions don't agree on what you see as negatives. I don't think you see the postives of the LT program. It isn't just limited to the LT Mass.

But hey, we don't have to agree. I have a lot of confidence in Church clergy, my Bishop, my Priests, and my own observations and experience. I agree and understand their explanations of how it is licit and allowed by the Church. I also have confidence that my priests will be obedient to my Bishop, and the Bishop will be obedient to whom he answers to. :P

[breauxlg]

The catechism descibes the Mass as a "celebration" a celebration of the Sacrifice, yes, but a celebration none the less. That describes a joyous occasion, which is what the Mass is supposed to be. If you only see the Sacrifice and don't ever look for the Resurrection, I can see how joyless the Mass can be.

I don't see that much joy on the faces of a lot of church goers. I can't imagine you looking Jesus in the face and not wanting to sing and dance and otherwise act "unseemly." It seems that He gave a lesson regarding how you should act around Him to Martha and Mary.

As a result of my affiliation with LifeTeen, I can now go to the dryest and most poorly executed daily Mass with a bored and boring priest and still get tears in my eyes when the bread and wine become the Body and Blood. It's not about the rock music, nor about where you stand when Jesus invites you to the celebration, it's about "full, active and concious participation" in the Celebration. If you don't have that, you may as well stay at home and watch football.

I attended a Youth Mass last summer(2002) where there were people in the congregation who had their shirts off and were yelling and clapping and singing and howling at different times during the Mass. I thought it a little "out there," but the priest/presider didn't. He was egging them on and smiling and having an enormously good time. Of course the priest was a bishop, so he would be the chief liturgist for his congregation. Oh, and the bishop also happened to be a Cardinal. Oh yeah, he was also the Pope. That Mass at World Youth Day was "way out there" as far as comparing it to our LifeTeen Mass at my home parish, but I don't think I'm going to complain to the presider. In fact, it was one of the most "entertaining" Masses I have ever attended, also one of the loudest. It was also the most spiritually uplifting Mass I have ever been priveledged to be a part of in my life.

I am new to this forum, but I love people who are concerned for our Catholic Church. This is a great site.

I love you all,

Lynn

[IXpenguin21]

i hope no one is mad at me that i advertized for PM on the LT website, after hearing how people just want to say how much they are upset with it...

http://www.lifeteen.com/TeenTalk.asp?Actio...wBoard&ID=27581

[foundsheep]

I was hoping to start lifeteen here at my parrish, but I dont know now. We have a real strict priest who I believe will not shy away from the rules of mass. I do think if rules are allowed to bend when these young folks are in high schoool, wont they want to continue this into adulthood?

[cmotherofpirl]

II suppose its a silly question to ask why life teen simply can't be obedient to the rubics?

Or is this just too much to ask.

What is wrong with obedience AND fruit?

[geetarplayer]

At the heart of LifeTeen is the intention to lead teens closer to Christ. That is their main focus. If we are taught the wrong thing to say at the end of the Mass in the process, is it going to prevent us from becoming closer to Him? LifeTeen does what it says it does: it brings teens closer to Christ.

-A proud member of LifeTeen, the Catholic Church and the Body of Christ

Mark

[Katholikos]

Right on, cmom.

Life Teen could be all that it is and still be obedient to Church law.

So why isn't it?

[nippy316]

I'm glad Life Teen has done so much good, but at the same time, in a time where cafeteria Catholicism is rampant, especially among young people, it seems to me that if breaking rules during Mass is encouraged, then teens might eventually think, "Well, if it's OK to break the rules at Mass, then why not break the rules in other areas?"

Well, the teens at my church don't even know that they're "breaking the rules". The majority of them don't know much at all about the mass. That is, until Mr.T gets them in his confirmation class! And as Mr.T said, our pastor is VERY conservative, and he allows it.

It's our liturgical abuses, even though it has been pointed out many times by Mr.T that the bishop has discretion, blah blah blah...

Why is everyone so concerned about Lifeteen masses? If you don't like them, don't go to them. Whatever you think about Lifeteen, it brings teenagers closer to Christ.

Edited November 5, 2003 by nippy316

[jasJis]

When my Bishop says they are breaking the rules, they are breaking the rules.

There are Bishops on both sides of the issues. My reading of the GIRM, and my Bishops reading of the GIRM permit lattitude to the Bishop for valid reasons. My Bishop feels there is valid reason. Nobody has yet to show me a Bishop or the Papal Vicar saying LifeTeen is a total abuse and should be ended. I tend to obey the Bishop and my priest when in doubt. Sorry LT isn't the way some people want it to be. Why don't you start up your own youth ministry or join LT and change it from within? What kind of youth ministry is in YOUR parish? Somethings better than nothing, and I personally work to make my parish's LT program great. I don't have to be more Catholic than my priest or Bishop!

Nippy,

Lot's of the kids do know alot about the Mass, and we re-inforce it @ confirmation. Which reminds me. The next SS planning meeting is Thurs., Nov. 20, 6pm in the Adult Ed building. It's about The Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament (and God in the Sacraments), and the Real Presence in the Mass. Looking forward to seeing you there.

[littleflower+JMJ]

no one "hates" lifeteen nippy.

its should be a concern for everyone that we are obedient to the mass.

and i have heard both good and bad from good devout catholic youth,both sides of the coin...and lets say the majority of them are concerned on how lifeteen mass is run.

i've heard both sides.

and i think cmom and likos said it best.

do'nt get me wrong...im very sure lifeteen is a great catholic youth program. and i know its a wonderful for some teens...and im all for anything that fires up our kids for Christ, absolutelynothing wrong with that......

+JMJ

pax christi

[PedroX]

One of my pet peeves with current American culture is how nobody has to grow up. College kids are expected to have little if any more maturity than high schoolers, and as long as 20 somethings hold a job, we don't expect much of them either. By the time you hit thirty, you're expected to have a serious "relationship", but not neccessarily planning for the future. Oh, and you can still party on the weekend (like its 1999!).

The point? Simple. People rise, or fall, to the standard that is set for them. I praise God that LifeTeen is used to draw souls unto Himself. However, surely teens can learn to worship God in a manner that also teaches them that rules are important, and meant to be followed. If you want to sing Steven Curtis Chapman, or Amy Grant, or really sappy Jesuit choruses, go ahead. If you want to invade the alter during the consecration, please don't. It does matter. Why not have "fun" activities immediately after Mass? (not before, got to observe the 1 hour no food rule!). I think the idea of LifeTeen is great. But, please don't say that breaking the rules doesn't matter. When will we hold people accountable? At twenty? At 30?

peace...