Henry Viii And Purgatory

[M.SIGGA]

Edward IV actually made his chantry and funeral monument an integral feature of the new chapel in 1475, though this was never finished. Henry VIII also intended a chantry to be set up here as well as a gigantic monument in the centre of the choir. This is despite the fact that he instituted the religious changes which brought about the Reformation in England and the eventual suppression of chantries. All that survives at Windsor of his projected monument are copies of the great bronze candlesticks intended to surround the tomb. Attempts were made to complete Henry's monument (which lay unfinished) by both his daughters, Mary I and Elizabeth I. Neither succeeded fully in their plans but Elizabeth did manage to reconstitute the Poor Knights attached to the college as a community of thirteen men in accordance with her father's wishes.

http://www.stgeorges-windsor.org/history/h...t_chantries.asp

If Henry VIII funded a chantry, and Protestant Elizabeth I brought back the priests to pray for the dead king b/c he requested this before dying, does this mean that Henry and Elizabeth believed in Purgatory?

[Uncle Gus]

It would seem to imply that, yes.

[Anna]

You can't pray anyone out of hell, and if they're in heaven, they don't need to be prayed for...sooooooooo.....omgosh, yeah! They believed in Purgatory!

Still falling....................................................................

Pax Christi. <><

[Ellenita]

Well that's not surprising! Henry VIII was a Catholic who created the split with the church not on the grounds of disagreeing with the theology but on the grounds of disagreeing with the fact that he wasn't being given permission for his divorce. That's why I think so many similarities remained between the high Anglican and Catholic mass in terms of it's form. Elizabeth will have been influenced by this too -remember her sister was catholic, as was quite a number of the court. I think one of the reasons for the subsequent persecutions which followed their decision was because it wasn't born out of theological conviction - how can you convince people you are right if this is the case? You have to force them to agree by threat of violence rather than through debate.

Of course it did pave the way for the beliefs of Calvin and Luther to gain a stronghold and subsequently Cromwell and the civil war.

[M.SIGGA]

For any of you who might be confused by the post;

Chantries were institutions in the Church where a person would pay the clergy to say masses for their souls after death - the person who was usually wealthy would donate a monument or a small altar to the church where those masses and prayers would be given. Many old Cathedrals and churches today still have side altars and monuments dedicated to those benefactors of the Church who established chantries before dying.

Henry and Elizabeth disolved all the existing chantries, and burned many of the altars and shrines built by benefactors to the Church all over England, and deported priests and religious who would have been still praying for the dead who established chantries. What is so confusing is that Elizabeth called the priests back to Henry's altar at St. George's in Windsor Chapel to pray for his soul b/c he requested it. She did this while still enacting the Oath of Supremacy on all clergy and nobles who remained in England with titles; and she was also trying to dissolve ''popish'' ideas of purgatory and devotion to saints and celebrating feast days.

[Jake Huether]

Well that's not surprising! Henry VIII was a Catholic who created the split with the church not on the grounds of disagreeing with the theology but on the grounds of disagreeing with the fact that he wasn't being given permission for his divorce.  That's why I think so many similarities remained between the high Anglican and Catholic mass in terms of it's form. Elizabeth will have been influenced by this too -remember her sister was catholic, as was quite a number of the court. I think one of the reasons for the subsequent persecutions which followed their decision was because it wasn't born out of theological conviction - how can you convince people you are right if this is the case? You have to force them to agree by threat of violence rather than through debate.

Of course it did pave the way for the beliefs of Calvin and Luther to gain a stronghold and subsequently Cromwell and the civil war.

Like we've said before,

Protestants are protestants because,

1.) They are confused about what the Catholic Church really teaches.

2.) They were raised in the faith and don't know the Catholic Church (and are most likely KEPT from knowing it).

or

3.) They cannot give up a certain vice which the Catholic Church does not permit.

This was the case for Henry VIII.

[Anna]

Thanks, M SIGGA....

We should save this for the next time anon-Catholic accuses the Church of hypocracy, eh?

[Ellenita]

They cannot give up a certain vice which the Catholic church does not permit. This was the case for Henry VIII

Darn it, I was kind of hoping to skip past the 'formed on the basis of sin bit'!!! :ph34r:

[Undercover]

Protestants are protestants because,

1.) They are confused about what the Catholic Church really teaches.

2.) They were raised in the faith and don't know the Catholic Church (and are most likely KEPT from knowing it).

or

3.) They cannot give up a certain vice which the Catholic Church does not permit.

1) I agree, but I would argue that it is up to the Catholic Church to make it known what their beliefs truly are and to make sure that their members understand the truth and don't spread false beliefs. I am currently trying to figure out what it is that separates Catholics and the rest of us (heh), and it's hard because there are so many different things being taught.

2) not sure that we are purposely kept from knowing it in most cases, but sometimes it's true. I would also argue that it goes both ways, that Catholics are kept in the dark to the same degree.

3) Maybe yes, maybe no. From my personal observance it seems that sometimes Baptists are more strict than Catholics..

[Anna]

True, undercover, some Baptists are more strict than Catholics.

But being strict is not a gauge of Truth. They are strictly wrong on many counts. They have some Truth, mixed with a considerable amount of error.

The Catholic Church contains the Fullness of Truth.

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ, who promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church.

Scripture says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth, and says that there is but One Lord, One Faith, One baptism...

Ever since the protestant revolt (fondly referred to as the reformation, more accurately called a de-formation) those denominations who broke away from Rome and rejected our Truths have been splintering and splintering. To date, there are more than 33,000 protestant denominations, all claiming to have the Truth, yet all contradicting one another. Some are as old as 500 years, while others are less than 100 years old.

The Catholic Church can be traced back over 2000 years, all the way back to Jesus Christ Himself. Even the Holy Bible was first compiled by the Catholic Church. The New Testament was composed by Catholics and is a testimony and history of the Early Church.

We carry on the teachings and traditions given us by Jesus Christ, handed down from the Apostles, carried on by the Early Church Fathers, all the way to today...It's an amesome thing to have such roots!

Pax Christi. <><

[M.SIGGA]

3) Maybe yes, maybe no.  From my personal observance it seems that sometimes Baptists are more strict than Catholics..

I don't know where you are from but I always heard the saying that where 4 Baptists are gathered you will be sure to find a 5th :P