Faithful heart Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Hello all, I was thinking about Artificial insemination. I know the Church says this is not right (I agree) but If the babies are born they must have souls from God. They must have been ment to be born, right? Are the children who are born in this manner Children of God and the parents are the sinners? There are two couples that I know who did this to have their children. The mothers were so upset that they could not conceieve. When they got pregnant the parents were so happy, stating that it was a miracle. I do not go against the Church. Can anyone clear this up for me? What are your thoughts? Thank you and God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 (edited) 2 main points. 1.) It makes the act of procreation an artificial act. It isn't part of the unitive and self-giving act of conjugal sex. It excludes God as part of the act of becoming a family. If we were only meant to be biological families, that that would also go against us being adopted children of God. It would be a half lie to say God is our Father. 2) Artifical insemeniation almost always includes fertility drugs and/or other procedures that causes more than one conception. With multiple artificial conceptions, some are stored, and some die. It is forcing conceptions and then causing deaths. Life either starts at conception, or it doesn't. The Church affirms that it life starts at conception. In any event, every conception has a soul. It is God's will that every conception has a soul, but that does not mean God intended for the conception to happen. We have free will and can do good or evil. The evil of our act of artificial conception or even cloning does not preclude or prevent God's will that all human life have a soul and have dignity. All created life is a miracle. God created human bodies, sexuality, genes, sperm and egg as a miracle of life. That does not mean what we do with them is and extension of God's intended miracle. It would be a Grave Sin by the parents in a Grave matter. Their understanding of what they were doing and the morality of it could make it a Mortal Sin. No evil was committed by the concieved persons. God can forgive the parents if they ask, and they should. Edited November 4, 2003 by jasJis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 I'd just like to reiterate the main SIN involved in this act: More than one egg is fertilized. Therefore, AI always results in the conception of MULTIPLE HUMANS. The mother, once her system has accepted ONE of these, may or may not want the OTHERS. More often than not these are simply wasted! I forget where, but recently (in the past few years) upwards of 3000 HUMAN babies were trashed (in ONE shot) because they had passed the "expiration date"! This is an immediate and physical result of AI. The spiritual damage, as noted, is also present and lasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithful heart Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 2 main points. 1.) It makes the act of procreation an artificial act. It isn't part of the unitive and self-giving act of conjugal sex. It excludes God as part of the act of becoming a family. If we were only meant to be biological families, that that would also go against us being adopted children of God. It would be a half lie to say God is our Father. 2) Artifical insemeniation almost always includes fertility drugs and/or other procedures that causes more than one conception. With multiple artificial conceptions, some are stored, and some die. It is forcing conceptions and then causing deaths. Life either starts at conception, or it doesn't. The Church affirms that it life starts at conception. that In any event, every conception has a soul. It is God's will every conception has a soul, but that does not mean God intended for the conception to happen. We have free will and can do good or evil. The evil of our act of artificial conception or even cloning does not preclude or prevent God's will that all human life have a soul and have dignity. All created life is a miracle. God created human bodies, sexuality, genes, sperm and egg as a miracle of life. That does not mean what we do with them is and extension of God's intended miracle. It would be a Grave Sin by the parents in a Grave matter. Their understanding of what they were doing and the morality of it could make it a Mortal Sin. No evil was committed by the concieved persons. God can forgive the parents if they ask, and they should. I understand why it is wrong, I was wondering about the children who come into this world because of this procedure. I always thought that every person who is on earth was ment to be here, part of Gods plan. I will give you an example and please let me know if this is what you mean... My child was concieved from myself and my husband. A couple I know has a child concieved from Artificial insemination, so is my child ment to be here by God and the other mother's child is not? Does God still look at that child as his? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 all i kan think of is the story of Ishmael conceieved because Abraham lost sight of God's plan and disobeyed Him. yet God still protected and loved Ishmael and his mother Hagar. just because someone is created outside God's plan, doesn't mean they are not loved and not a part of God's plan. God saw them preparing the artificial insemination. They created the body. God was there. God created the soul, without the help of the self-sacrificial love between man and woman. it would have been much more pleasing to God for the man and the woman to join in on this act of creation with the power of their own self-sacrificial love, but because it was created, God, with Whom nothing is impossible, gave it a soul and loved it, and loved it before it was even created. Doctors violated God's commands, as Abraham violated God's commands when he lost hope, but God was there when the doctors conceived with the matter of life that God had created, and He conceived the soul of the Child. it's so hard to fathom the mystery of God's amazing love. but all who are on this earth are meant to be here, whether they were a result of sinning against God or not, they are still meant to be and God loves them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 There is a difference between God's perfect and passive will, His perfect will is that this soul came to be through proper intercourse. His passive will allows it the conception to happen and through His goodness He still creates a soul so that it can be a conception, thus allowing another unique being to benefit from His goodness. A lot of the answer to this is tied up in Why did God create us in the first place if He knew, which He did, that we would sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeSoul Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 I know what fertilized eggs can be stored via invitro...but artificial insemination in its truest sense just means that the sperm is inserted via an alternative means. I don't mean to sound excessive but think 'turkey baster'. I don't think the scenario where '3000 human babies were trashed' was from AI, because Artificial Insemination is a necessarily intrauterine procedure, it's usually performed in cases where, say, a the lining/mucous of the woman's uterous is inhospitable to the sperm, the male's sperm count is low etc...So, i'm a bit confused by that statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 I know what fertilized eggs can be stored via invitro...but artificial insemination in its truest sense just means that the sperm is inserted via an alternative means. I don't mean to sound excessive but think 'turkey baster'. I don't think the scenario where '3000 human babies were trashed' was from AI, because Artificial Insemination is a necessarily intrauterine procedure, it's usually performed in cases where, say, a the lining/mucous of the woman's uterous is inhospitable to the sperm, the male's sperm count is low etc...So, i'm a bit confused by that statement... I think the term AI was rather a generalized term for any sort of artificial conception/fertilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Maybe someone has touched on this point already, but another thing to think about is that to extract the sperm cells, the man must masturbate. This is a gravely disordered action and gravely sinful. No one denies that creating a child is a good thing. It is the means in which it is done that is sinful. Procreation is meant to happen when a man gives of himself completely to his wife in sexual intercourse. When a man masturbates, he is not giving and his wife is not receiving. Is is a very serious sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Quick question, dont couples who cant have a baby sometimes use sper/or eggs from others? Isnt that a violation of the marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithful heart Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 Thank you so much, The story of Ishmael helped me to understand. thank again to all of you. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdewolf2 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Quick question, dont couples who cant have a baby sometimes use sper/or eggs from others? Isnt that a violation of the marriage? Yes, they do. They actually have men donate their sperm to "sperm banks," where it can be used indefinitely until someone wants to use it. They also have surrogate motherhood, when they fertilize the sperm and one woman's egg in vitro and then implant it in the womb of another woman who later gives birth to it. Of course it's a violation of the marriage. It's not exactly adultery, but it certainly goes against the Catholic understanding of marriage as a union between one man and one woman who give themselves to each other in holy wedlock and thereby produce children. Bringing in third parties just kind of undermines the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 The way I see it is if you cant,maybe you werent meant to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdewolf2 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 If you can't you should adopt. There are lots of children out there who need good homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Maybe someone has touched on this point already, but another thing to think about is that to extract the sperm cells, the man must masturbate. This is a gravely disordered action and gravely sinful. No one denies that creating a child is a good thing. It is the means in which it is done that is sinful. Procreation is meant to happen when a man gives of himself completely to his wife in sexual intercourse. When a man masturbates, he is not giving and his wife is not receiving. Is is a very serious sin. Actually they use a condom with some holes in it so the marital act isn't violated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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