jezic Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 What traditions aren't in the scripture? I was just drawing the connection with living people. HOw can't they pray for your salvation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priscilla Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Apr 7 2005, 04:15 PM'] You are getting ahead of me a littel bit, and yes they are God given. Isn't Jesus God? Can't he make new traditions then? [/quote] What new traditions are required? His sacrifice is the perfect sacrifice for sins. We do not need any other "traditions" for salvation. The Lord accomplished it all on the Cross. We can have a close relationship directly with Him, and with the Father through Him. Yes, I believe the Lord Jesus is God: God manifested in the flesh, and certainly God by virtue of His office. But there will come a time when He will hand the Kingdom back to the Father, so that God can be all in all. Christ is subordinate to His Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 [quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 7 2005, 04:19 PM'] I love and respect the mother or our Lord: and I hold her dear in my affections. But to kneel down before a statue of her and pray to her, when I know full well that she is neither omniscient nor omnipresent, would be to me idolatry. [/quote] Exactly, you are not praying to her though. In that way it would be worship. You are asking her to talk with jesus essentially. The wedding at cana is a good example. Jesus's first miracle happened when she asked him to do it. The same thing applies. The bond between mother and Son is very strong. the dead people thing, God grants graces for your prayers. if you ask Him to grant them to dead people, why wouldn't he? I guess the problem here might be more our belief in Purgatory and your belief in sleeping...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priscilla Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Apr 7 2005, 04:20 PM'] What traditions aren't in the scripture? I was just drawing the connection with living people. HOw can't they pray for your salvation? [/quote] What do you mean, what traditions aren't in Scripture? Sorry - I'm not with you there! I believe that when I drifted away from the Lord in my teenage years there were living people praying for me: and their prayers were answered because I came back to the Lord. But the dead know not anything - the Lord says "For in death there is no rememberence of Thee: in the grave who shall give Thee thanks" (Psalm 6:5) and again "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" (Psalm 115:17) and again "And no man hath ascended up to heave" (John 3:13) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priscilla Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Apr 7 2005, 04:28 PM'] Exactly, you are not praying to her though. In that way it would be worship. [/quote] Well that's my problem - I believe only God is to be worshipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azriel Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Priscilla - I think its essential to this thread that you clarify your beliefs about the dead. I believe you are saying that when a person dies that their soul does not immediately go to heaven/hell (or in a Catholic view purgatory) .. but the person is essentially dormant until the second coming when the body is ressurected? Did I get that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 [quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 7 2005, 05:30 PM'] What do you mean, what traditions aren't in Scripture? Sorry - I'm not with you there! I believe that when I drifted away from the Lord in my teenage years there were living people praying for me: and their prayers were answered because I came back to the Lord. But the dead know not anything - the Lord says "For in death there is no rememberence of Thee: in the grave who shall give Thee thanks" (Psalm 6:5) and again "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" (Psalm 115:17) and again "And no man hath ascended up to heave" (John 3:13) [/quote] Actually, the psalms were written before Heaven was opened, so these would be referring to two places, either Hell or Limbo. In Hell, which I believe is what is truly meant by dead (because that is where spiritual death is), there is no praise of God. As for Limbo...it is arguable that there was a certain dormancy...not a cessation of existance, but a dormancy...in which there may have been no praising. However, I believe the psalms are referring "to those who go down into the depths" and those "in the depths of the netherworld." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priscilla Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 [quote name='Azriel' date='Apr 7 2005, 05:02 PM'] Priscilla - I think its essential to this thread that you clarify your beliefs about the dead. I believe you are saying that when a person dies that their soul does not immediately go to heaven/hell (or in a Catholic view purgatory) .. but the person is essentially dormant until the second coming when the body is ressurected? Did I get that right? [/quote] Yes - that's right. It's like sleep - you have no conciousness of time. So when we die, our next conscious moment will be before the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priscilla Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Apr 7 2005, 05:41 PM'] Actually, the psalms were written before Heaven was opened, so these would be referring to two places, either Hell or Limbo. In Hell, which I believe is what is truly meant by dead (because that is where spiritual death is), there is no praise of God. As for Limbo...it is arguable that there was a certain dormancy...not a cessation of existance, but a dormancy...in which there may have been no praising. However, I believe the psalms are referring "to those who go down into the depths" and those "in the depths to the netherworld." [/quote] Hmm....yes I see what you mean a little. I may get back to you on that, God willing. I'm away for a few days. Thanks for all your replies everyone. I shall be thinking about it. The Lord bless you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 [quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 7 2005, 06:48 PM'] Hmm....yes I see what you mean a little. I may get back to you on that, God willing. I'm away for a few days. Thanks for all your replies everyone. I shall be thinking about it. The Lord bless you all. [/quote] That's okay, I'm away for the weekend starting tomorrow, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 [quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 7 2005, 12:08 PM']I don't know what Sola Scriptura is. I'm not very au-faith with Catholic terminology - forgive me. Is it "only Scripture"? If so I like that tradition because I can be confident that the commandments in Scripture is pleasing to God.[/quote] Sola Scriptura is not a Catholic belief. It is belief that is only 500 years old, borne out of the Protestant Reformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 [quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 7 2005, 06:55 PM'] Well that's my problem - I believe only God is to be worshipped. [/quote] Only God is worshipped. That has always been Catholic belief How do you define worship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 How many times has this thread gone in circles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinner Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Priscila, I like you. You are kind and civil and seem genuinely curious. Keep your search for Truth.... It will find you. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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