*urge to kill, rising*

[LittleLes]

Since his statement is not an ex cathedra teaching, but merely a personal view, Pope Gelasis' dissent does not change the fact of women's ordination to Holy Orders and consequent error of the claim of a constant teaching.

Little Les

Edited April 4, 2005 by LittleLes

[Socrates]

No women were ever ordained to Holy Orders. There is no evidence that the "deaconesses" mentioned in Scripture were ever ordained to the priesthood. They were consecrated virgins, similar to nuns, and their role was unrelated to the priesthood.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Apr 4 2005, 10:38 AM'] Since his statement is not an ex cathedra teaching, but merely a personal view, Pope Gelasis' dissent does not change the fact of women's ordination to Holy Orders and consequent error of the claim of a constant teaching.

Little Les [/quote]
It doesn't have to be ex cathedra to be part of the Magisterium.

[MC Just]

Firmilian


"[T]here suddenly arose among us a certain woman, who in a state of ecstasy announced herself as a prophetess and acted as if filled with the Holy Ghost. . . . Through the deceptions and illusions of the demon, this woman had previously set about deluding believers in a variety of ways. Among the means by which she had deluded many was daring to pretend that, through proper invocation, she consecrated bread and performed the Eucharist. She offered up the sacrifice to the Lord in a liturgical act that corresponds to the usual rites, and she baptized many, all the while misusing the customary and legitimate wording of the [baptismal] question. She carried all these things out in such a manner that nothing seemed to deviate from the norms of the Church" (collected in Cyprian’s Letters 74:10 [A.D. 253]).


Council of Laodicea


"[T]he so-called ‘presbyteresses’ or ‘presidentesses’ are not to be ordained in the Church" (Canon 11 [A.D. 360]).

The Didascalia


"For it is not to teach that you women . . . are appointed. . . . For he, God the Lord, Jesus Christ our Teacher, sent us, the twelve [apostles], out to teach the [chosen] people and the pagans. But there were female disciples among us: Mary of Magdala, Mary the daughter of Jacob, and the other Mary; he did not, however, send them out with us to teach the people. For, if it had been necessary that women should teach, then our Teacher would have directed them to instruct along with us" (Didascalia 3:6:1–2 [A.D. 225]).


Tertullian


"It is of no concern how diverse be their [the heretics’] views, so long as they conspire to erase the one truth. They are puffed up; all offer knowledge. Before they have finished as catechumens, how thoroughly learned they are! And the heretical women themselves, how shameless are they! They make bold to teach, to debate, to work exorcisms, to undertake cures . . . " (Demurrer Against the Heretics 41:4–5 [A.D. 200]).

"[A female heretic], lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. . . . But we, little fishes, after the example of our Icthus [Greek, "Fish"], Jesus Christ, are born in water . . . so that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes, by taking them away from the water" (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

"It is not permitted for a woman to speak in the church [1 Cor 14:34–35], but neither [is it permitted her] . . . to offer, nor to claim to herself a lot in any manly function, not to say sacerdotal office" (The Veiling of Virgins 9 [A.D. 206]).

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 4 2005, 11:26 PM'] It doesn't have to be ex cathedra to be part of the Magisterium. [/quote]
Amen.

[Cam42]

[quote name='LittleLes' date='Apr 4 2005, 08:38 AM'] Since his statement is not an ex cathedra teaching, but merely a personal view, Pope Gelasis' dissent does not change the fact of women's ordination to Holy Orders and consequent error of the claim of a constant teaching.

Little Les [/quote]
It doesn't need to be ex cathedra to be binding as a corrective teaching to another bishop.

Doesn't scripture allow for bishops to bind and loose? I believe that it does. And since the Pope is the temporal head of the Church and could govern as he deemed necessary, HE WAS CORRECTING AN ERROR THAT WAS BEING PERPETRATED BY A BISHOP. It happened and happens all the time.

You provided the proof for us and now you are trying to back track your way out of it. Come on...how about a little integrity here brother Littleles? It would be a nice change.

Cam