What I Have Learned From Phatmass

[mulls]

wow, this thread is amazing. i just finished reading the whole thing and i'm not sure if i've seen a better witness than this in my entire time here. mulls, did u feel the love--the sincere, true love--that the pham has for you! i really felt it--a love that longs for you to be a part of the Body of Christ, a love that bemoans the loss of each and every member, a love like a mother's outstretched arms urging you to come back home. did u feel it?

yes, that's why i brought it back to life, this is a great example of how to be gracious and how we should act towards one another.

[Dave]

Look for men who want wives and children. Good ones. That will end the problem for most.

It is in asking for abnormality that abnornality is encouraged.

The Pope can change this on a whim, and should.

No, it won't end the problem. Did you know that pedophilia and other sex scandals happen at a HIGHER RATE among Protestant churches with married pastors? I'm not saying that if priests could marry the rate would further increase; I'm just saying that being able to marry hasn't stopped pedophilia and other sexual misdeeds among Protestant ministers.

[Anna]

Well Bruce, your opinons differ from St. Paul's position, expressed in great detail in 1 Corinthians 7:7-38:

7 I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.

9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion . . .

20 Every one should remain in the state in which he was called . . . . .

27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage.

28 But if you marry, you do not sin . . . Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . .

32 I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord;

33 But the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife,

34 and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband.

35 I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord . . .

38 So that he who marries his betrothed does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better.

Pax Christi. <><

[Circle_Master]

a) I would suggest you take this from the entire context of the chapter Anna. If you do you will notice it says "Every one should remain in the state in which he was called . . . . ." 4+ different times in it. The point that Paul is trying to respond to is letting people know that where you were in salvation, that is ok. You don't have to switch to be like Paul.

b) Taking the context in view, this passage is issuing those who are married and get saved, and those who are not married and get saved. The unmarried who gets saved, he says don't worry - marriage is great, but if you remain single you could focus on God better. The married who gets saved, he says don't worry - it's great, you won't sin in lust, but you will have to deal with other temptations in worldly desire.

c) Add in Ephesians 4-6 one day when Paul writes an entire discourse on how a husband is to act, and how a woman is to act, and how the children are to act, and then he says 'This is the church!, This is your example of evangelism!'. If anything, being married has greater benefits as it allows you to live by example and not just by word.

d) Add in the qualifications for elders, and you will see that in order to manage the church, you are to compare it to how he manages his family life. If he has no family life, the biggest qualification of how well he will deal with the church is unknown.