What I Have Learned From Phatmass

[Jake Huether]

true or not, i am fine with that statistic.....AS LONG AS the leaders of the churches which these people are attending are doing their job of preaching sin, salvation, and the cross. there will always be unbelievers, no matter how hard we try.

but the important thing is that we do try, especially those who have places of high authority and are supposed to be the ultimate witnesses of Christ.

So Mulls,

your litmus test then for the True Church, would be one in which the leaders preach sin, salvation, and the Cross?

first of all, Is that Biblical?

second: how many leaders does it take to make it the "right" Church?

I can tell you, Mulls, there are many Catholic Leaders who teach this!

And, ehem, where did the Protestants get this from if it wasn't the Catholic Church? Don't say the Bible, because even that came out of the Catholic Church...

[mulls]

did i say anything like that?

[ironmonk]

" Mulls, it's true that a lot of Catholics have been poorly catechized and evangelized. But to blame it on the Church is a cop-out. "

then who else is there to blame it on? the individual? i think that's the cop-out.

i'm not copping-out of anything. i have nothing to hide, nothing to avoid. i'm being as honest as i can possibly be....i figured i owed at least that much to everyone here for being so good to me.

i do know of faithful catholics, i already emphasized that, and i am thankful for that. i'm speaking of the majority (yes yes narrow is the road, don't come back at me with that).

i urge everyone to re-read my previous two posts closely, and carefully, with an open mind. it's about as honest and open as i have ever been.

Sounds like you are leaving Peter because of Judas.

The Catholic Church does reach out. The Catholic Church does not shove it down people's throats telling them that they will burn in hell.

If people really want to know, then they'll study, and find the truth. Also, God calls men in their own time.

You are doing a cop out when blaming the Church for all the ignorant people.

HOW DO YOU KNOW what goes on in Mass? You don't go. Going a couple times does not count. If you went for a good amount of time, you would hear these things.

The Church is very busy saving souls, and if you don't see it, then you are looking in the wrong place. Mass is Worshiping of God. The Church speaks to many people outside of the Mass.

4,037,470 baptisms happened in 2001 in North America alone.... What makes you think that nothings being done?!

You are here... We are Catholic and being active in preaching the Truth.

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

17,355,643 baptisms world wide in 2001.

The Church is very active.

The Catholic Church has 3,957 secondary schools in North America... the Word is being spread.

It's a shame that you reject Christ's Church because you don't know where to look. Maybe you expect God to make it blindingly obvious....

You're here.... and no other source can prove the Catholic Church wrong, or answer everything like the Catholic Church can.

You're going to do what you want... if you don't want Christ's Church, nothing any Priest can say will make you change your mind.... Only God can soften your heart.

God Bless, Your Servant in Christ,

ironmonk

[Donna]

Well Mulls, I have seen writings where even the Trads bemoan the lack of vocations, the petty and vain conversation and pursiuts of the young who attend Latin Mass, grow up with all good example of piety.

Would it help to seomewhere here in the Phorum post prayers which may convince you the personal relationship stuff began with Catholics?

Probably not?

CMom and jasJis and Pedrox and Jake and Ironmonk,

Tina and ANNA are right when they say, basically, that the wheat and the cockle (weeds) grow together. Please look at that parable, for Jesus says that the weeds must not be uprooted lest the wheat go along with them. He said Let both grow until the harvest.

(And, that how could anyone not see that the Church is The Church).

Jesus also said of the man who'd tilled in the day and at night enemies had sown weeds, "An Enemy hath done this."

The Catholic Church will always have the most and worst enemies assailing because she is the biggest target of satan.

Yes, Jake is right, the difference between the Mystical Body and its members, including religious and lay both. Maybe, "structure of the Church" would be better?

(Pedrox, have you really got a smoking room? You da' man).

Mulls, I pray you find the Truth.

[PedroX]

Donna,

Thank you for the gracious reminder. Of course, you are right. Christ taught several times that the "sorting" will occur at the judgement (after death). It is just so hard not to want to sort things out now. However, as I read your post I thought that what a great blessing God has given us by including the tares for now. I get to learn patience, humility and have an opportunity to witness because they are right in the pew with me. Thank you again.

Yes, I do have a smoking room, complete with book shelves, sacred art an ottman and a standing ashtray. The bay windows afford me a view of my ghetto neighborhood, and I like to sit and ponder as I smoke. (What shall we do tonight Brain? The same thing we do every night Pinky... Plot to take over the world!)

peace...

[mulls]

i'm resurrecting this thread, i forgot how good it was. it explains a lot about me.

but before you respond, PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING.

thanks!

[mulls]

can somebody move this to the debate table ASAP?!

[cmotherofpirl]

nope its not debatable.

You are definitely a cutie :)

[littleflower+JMJ]

nope its not debatable.

You are definitely a cutie

WORD. ^_^

:rolling:

[RJS]

Mulls thank you with being honest with us

But this is not a problem of just the Catholic church, it is all of society.

We have lost our soul.

It started in 1968 (although it had deep roots) when people decided to pursue selfish pleasure and the culture of me, instead of the sacrifices and self-giving of family life.

It culminated in Roe vs Wade that a mother can legally kill her children.

Now we routinely kill the old, the maimed, the less than perfect, the helpless, and the unwanted.

We make babies in glass jars and can now combine species for fun and profit.

We have lost our humanity.

The only place on the whole earth that is trying to hold the line and take back the culture is the Catholic Church.

I agree but I think it actually happened about 30 years earlier when Protestants went from teaching Contraception was a horrible sin to teaching that it was acceptable. From this point IMO, women were looked at more like sex objects than human beings. I think Roe V Wade was a result of this change.

Just my opinion.

[Azriel]

Moved cause Mulls asked nicely.

[mulls]

nope its not debatable.

You are definitely a cutie 

me? :huh:

Edited January 3, 2004 by mulls

[mulls]

Moved cause Mulls asked nicely.

thank you kindly.

i think this thread is a perfect example of how we should all try to act....expressing our thoughts, opinions, and beliefs and asking questions without any name calling or insults. let's spread the love. ;)

[phatcatholic]

pham,

wow, this thread is amazing. i just finished reading the whole thing and i'm not sure if i've seen a better witness than this in my entire time here. mulls, did u feel the love--the sincere, true love--that the pham has for you! i really felt it--a love that longs for you to be a part of the Body of Christ, a love that bemoans the loss of each and every member, a love like a mother's outstretched arms urging you to come back home. did u feel it?

if i could add my to cents, it would be this. i've read many articles from catholic apologetic websites in response to the sex "scandal" in the Church. many of them propose different reasons for why the Church has found itself in its present predicament. however, the solution is almost always the same: personal holiness. renewal to Catholic ideals and orthodoxy starts with each and every one of us. we are an army of one! the renewal must begin in our own hearts and minds.

the other members here have already attested to what the leaders of the church--from youth group leaders to the pope himself--have done to strengthen the Church and bring people closer to Christ. now, it is up to us.

what does this mean for you mulls? it means don't miss the forest for the trees. it means don't allow yourself to be scandalized. it means that the renewal of the Church in YourTown, USA starts with YOU. fight for the truths that you find in the Church and hold on to them for dear life. learn and pray about those truths you do not understand. when others around you may give the Eucharist only a fleeting thought, it is up to YOU to examine your conscience before hand and to thank God abundantly afterwards b/c of the truly unique relationship he allows you to experience. when others around you don't care about their faith or know anything about it, it is up to YOU to learn all you can about yours and to make it the paramount of your existence. the doctrine of the faith will always be true. when i become disheartened by the misbehavior of my fellow Catholics, i reach out to the truth and to my God who is Truth, and i am comforted.

one common technique in therapy is to ask a client to finish an "I am" statement. the client would say "I am" and then fill in the blank.

I am Catholic.

Praise God!

pax christi, brother

phatcatholic.

[Bruce S]

if i could add my to cents, it would be this. i've read many articles from catholic apologetic websites in response to the sex "scandal" in the Church. many of them propose different reasons for why the Church has found itself in its present predicament. however, the solution is almost always the same: personal holiness. renewal to Catholic ideals and orthodoxy starts with each and every one of us. we are an army of one! the renewal must begin in our own hearts and minds.

Look for men who want wives and children. Good ones. That will end the problem for most.

It is in asking for abnormality that abnornality is encouraged.

The Pope can change this on a whim, and should.