What I Have Learned From Phatmass

[mulls]

But it is about me and God personally

exactly. the pope should proclaim this every time he speaks publically. every priest should be required to emphasize this point during every homily.

All of these are example of bad catechisis in our churches. The faith of Jesus Christ is suffering everywhere. We all lack a leadership that is brave and unafraid

right. but in every non-catholic church i have been to (which isn't many to be fair), a personal relationship between you and God is stressed. the pastor can't do it for you, the choir can't do it for you, it doesn't matter how much money you give, it doesn't matter how many times you go to church per week....you gotta get down with God yourself.

it may sound like i'm contradicting myself here, after blaming the Church for people's apathy, but i'm not. what i'm saying is that the Church needs to try as hard as it can to get people into a personal relationship with God. you cannot leave a service at my own church without hearing this each and every time. and it never gets redundant. it's true and effective.

[Jake Huether]

exactly. the pope should proclaim this every time he speaks publically. every priest should be required to emphasize this point during every homily.

right. but in every non-catholic church i have been to (which isn't many to be fair), a personal relationship between you and God is stressed. the pastor can't do it for you, the choir can't do it for you, it doesn't matter how much money you give, it doesn't matter how many times you go to church per week....you gotta get down with God yourself.

it may sound like i'm contradicting myself here, after blaming the Church for people's apathy, but i'm not.  what i'm saying is that the Church needs to try as hard as it can to get people into a personal relationship with God. you cannot leave a service at my own church without hearing this each and every time. and it never gets redundant.  it's true and effective.

"it may sound like i'm contradicting myself here, after blaming the Church for people's apathy, but i'm not. what i'm saying is that the Church needs to try as hard as it can to get people into a personal relationship with God. you cannot leave a service at my own church without hearing this each and every time. and it never gets redundant. it's true and effective."

Mulls the Church has done EVERYTHING she can! At each and every Mass we are OFFERED a VERY personal relationship with Christ! His BODY and BLOOD to cosume, my friend! How much more personal can you get?

It isn't the fault of the Church, she can't force it down our throats. Individual (or even collectivly) priests aren't "the Church". The Pope has done more good for the Church (traveling to several hundred countries, etc.) than any person (Catholic or Protestant) before!

The reason you are all fired up and think that the Prots are doing so well in teaching a "personal relationship with Christ" is because it is more palletable and watered down! No joke! Was it Christ's fault when MANY of his desciples stopped following him after he proclaimed his FLESH as the life of the world!

Are you blaming Christ for Judas! That's what your saying! "Judas could have been saved if Christ did MORE". "more Catholics can be saved if the Church does MORE".

I can't believe this!

The Church is responsible for YOUR salvation! Look at the Bible in your hand and thank the Church that she protected it for all those years so that you might have AT LEAST 66 BOOKS!

Okay, I'm done venting....

[Paladin D]

I respect your opinions Mulls, even though I may disagree.

[mulls]

Mulls the Church has done EVERYTHING she can! At each and every Mass we are OFFERED a VERY personal relationship with Christ! His BODY and BLOOD to cosume, my friend! How much more personal can you get?

then why do so many people walk right out the door after receiving communion? why is this allowed? how many people actually examine their consicences thoroughly before receiving communion like the bible says? why doesn't the priest warn about the consequences of receiving the eucharist in the state of sin?

and now to get everyone fired up...

most people only receive the eucharist once a week...are you saying that this once-a-week act is the extent and epitome of one's relationship with Christ? what happens when they go home? what about wednesday night at 3am?

[mulls]

I respect your opinions Mulls, even though I may disagree.

thank you paladin, that's all i ask.

[Paladin D]

then why do so many people walk right out the door after receiving communion? why is this allowed? how many people actually examine their consicences thoroughly before receiving communion like the bible says? why doesn't the priest warn about the consequences of receiving the eucharist in the state of sin?

and now to get everyone fired up...

most people only receive the eucharist once a week...are you saying that this once-a-week act is the extent and epitome of one's relationship with Christ?  what happens when they go home? what about wednesday night at 3am?

Mulls, the Catholic Church isn't the only one, who has members who tend to be ignorant or not "on fire" so to speak.

Josh McDowell (non-Catholic Christian) was giving statistics concerning the state of the Christian churches in America. He said that around 50% of Protestants, who claim to be Christian, have not accepted Jesus as their Savior. (Not sure how he got that though)

He also layed out other statistics, which weren't that pleasing.

Look at the United States, we have strict laws and even severe punishments for illegal acts. Yet despite all this, people still commit crimes everyday (even the severe ones).

I just can't understand your logic. I would agree with you, if the Catholic Church was inDouche not trying and being mediocure (typo?), but that is not true at all. From the outside, it may appear to be so. I would like Catholic Schools to shapen up better, yet I was told it isn't as easy as it sounds.

I also heard, that there is a new generation of the priesthood, who are mostly very orthodox. A lot of them still in seminary school.

Edited November 4, 2003 by Paladin D

[marielapin]

then why do so many people walk right out the door after receiving communion? why is this allowed? how many people actually examine their consicences thoroughly before receiving communion like the bible says? why doesn't the priest warn about the consequences of receiving the eucharist in the state of sin?

and now to get everyone fired up...

most people only receive the eucharist once a week...are you saying that this once-a-week act is the extent and epitome of one's relationship with Christ?  what happens when they go home? what about wednesday night at 3am?

Pretty much the only way that we can keep people from leaving after Communion is by blocking the door. This practice was pretty bad at a previous Church but after a couple of sermons and a mention or two in the monthly letters to the parish, this practice almost stopped. (Some people are just stubborn). As far as examining their consciences, this has been preached at every Catholic Church I have attended for a length of time (3 different churches). The priest does warn the congregation, but if they are like some people at my parish, who sit behind us and talk about baking chocolate cake after Mass, then only a swift blow to the head will set them aright.

The once-a-week act is the pinnacle of our weekly relationship with Christ. We should talk to Him every day during prayer. Some people are fortunate enough to go to daily Mass (I used to go 6 times a week when at school). Other options are going to Adoration, or just driving to Church and praying in front of the Tabernacle. That is why Catholic Churches are left open during the day. I have had several instances of personal trial where I needed to go to Church. His Presence there was enough to calm me down and to re-focus my mind on the tasks at hand.

And for those that are at work all day, there are plenty of sites that have web cams of Perpetual Adoration. These work as well. And this is all on top of daily prayers.

[Aloysius]

then why do so many people walk right out the door after receiving communion? why is this allowed? how many people actually examine their consicences thoroughly before receiving communion like the bible says? why doesn't the priest warn about the consequences of receiving the eucharist in the state of sin?

and now to get everyone fired up...

most people only receive the eucharist once a week...are you saying that this once-a-week act is the extent and epitome of one's relationship with Christ?  what happens when they go home? what about wednesday night at 3am?

one of my priests, GOD BLESS HIM!!!!, Father Newell, has spoken on many tough subjects. he is old, and i don't think ppl listen to him all that much. but everytime i hear him mention somthing like contraception or masturbation, MORTAL SIN, the necessity of confession, INDULGENCES, the need for examination of concience before recieving the BODY BLOOD SOUL AND DIVINITY OF JESUS CHRIST, i pray all priests will find his courage.

but the ppl don't like it. they don't listen. it doesn't get them on fire because society has been trained not to pay attention unless we get an emotional response. he's not the best speaker, so ppl just sit in their pews and la-dee-da around.

emotions are not all there is. there's something alot deeper, not feelings, not intellect, but SPIRIT, and it can be affected by emotion, but alot of times this is a shallow touch on the spirit. Something that affects the spirit isn't like a surge of emotion, but a conversion that takes u by surprise, a Eucharistic experience when you feel nothing but somehow feel everything, a personal relationship with God that isn't wishy-washy lovey-dovey emotionism that is found in todays society, but a self-sacrificial undying love which makes people want to do nothing to offend Him, and a little emotion will never bring about that kind of loyalty. if you read the writings of the Pope, how can u not see a man desperately trying to reach people. but the people are obstinate.

ppl walk right out the door after receiving communion because of the way society is. it's a miracle they're still coming to Church, prolly just cuz that's what they were trained to do on sundayz. society has taught them not to pay attention unless it stimulates their emotions, and alot of times they don't pay attention, especially to Father Newell who tells them what they don't want to hear, YOU CANT RECEIVE THE EUCHARIST IN A STATE OF MORTAL SIN. when priests preach this stuff, the ppl tune them out because of the obstinance of their own hearts.

and as for receiving the Eucharist once a week. the most devout and faithful attempt to get to mass on weekdays and such whenever they can because of their love for Christ. i actually don't see many protestant churches even having a service on weekdays, yet all Catholic Churches experience the eternal sacrifice and celebration at least once a day. If people would actually follow the teachings, and love Christ, and not be so obstinant to what the few courageous priests say, they would find Christ present all the time, even that 3 am on a wednesday. but every Sunday, they would renew that by finding Him COMPLETELY THERE, as He was there with His Apostles in the flesh. during the week u can always find Him present in the Spirit. and if u go to mass during the week, u find Him present in the flesh the way He was present to His disciples, truly there Body Blood Soul and Divinity. and every time a faithful Catholic goes to mass He renews the presence of Christ within Him, with the ultimate goal of being a perfect imitator of Jesus Christ to the world.

i agree with you mulls, that sermons like this should be more commonplace, sermons of priests who are on fire for Christ and His Church. but even if that happened, the obstinance of peoples hearts block it out many times.

as for your experience in other protestant churches, let's emphasize u being fair that you've only been to a few. There are alot of GREAT Catholic Parishes around <it's harder to find one in the US, but try Mexico or some other place around the world, and you'll find ppl on fire for Christ>

wednesday night at 3 AM i got my Bible, My Catechism, My Rosary, and my Soul to see Christ's presence as He is there in Spirit. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday at 7 pm i see Jesus Christ in the flesh the way He was present to the Apostles 2000 years ago.

[marielapin]

"If today you hear His voice, harden not your hearts."

we may sing this psalm at Mass, but that doesn't mean people take heed.

It blows my mind how much beauty people miss when they are spaced out at Mass. They seriously have no clue what they are missing. Our Lord and Savior is there before us, as well as a cloud of witnesses, and all they can think about is chocolate cake.

[jasJis]

mulls,

Cut a little slack for people. We all have been given different levels of faith.

Did Jesus get ticked off at Peter when he denied knowing Christ 3 times?

How personal can the Church get when we individually recieve communion.

We aren't all leader sheep. Some of us are just sheep.

baaaaaaaaaa B)

[BLAZEr]

no mulls, you're right. The Church in this country has done a very bad job of "Preaching Christ and Him Crucified" and speaking courageously about Salvation, Redemption, Holiness, and Heaven and Hell.

I know, becuse my parish, the parents of my teens and the young adults are all a bunch of Casual Christians. It's a nice thing to do, "be a Christian" but very few of them have become transformed by the Radical call of the Gospel . . . we're the biggest social club in town . . . but there are efforts to change that.

I preach Christ and his Cross and his Salvation and His Mercy and His Love and his Justice to my teens. I take this very seriously. Our new priest does the same (in his very gentle way, gosh I wish I could be more gentle) every Sunday from the pulpit. The two of us arrived withing 3 months of each other and we've managed to be a sword in this oh so bourgeuois parish . . .

There are many people who are leading the New Evangelization. And we need more. We need more people who are going to risk everything, give up all that the world promises and devote themselves to preaching the Gospel tirelessly. I pray that God will give me the grace to do this as a priest. I pray that others will join me. I pray that we will always be faithful to Christ.

We haven't always done the best job, but we're coming a long way. It is the "Church's" fault that we haven't been more zealous, but the "Church" isn't some big institution . . . its US . . . the People of God . . . all of us together, in our state in life who need to preach Christ and Him Crucified in DEED AND WORD!!

[Anna]

Walking away from the Church because others aren't doing their part is a cop out.

I'm sorry mulls.

That's just the way I see it.

Come back.

The Church needs conscencious believers.

:wub:

Pax Christi. <><

[Jake Huether]

The Church in this country has done a very bad job...

I really hate to be so knitpicky... But we walk a fine line when we use "the Church" to refer to maybe even an entire Parish.

The Church has never done anything "bad". Because the Church is the Body of Christ! His Spottless Bride. We can only accurately say that it is the individuals inside the Church which are doing a bad job. Even if that be a Parish, or several Parishes in unison. They are not the Church.

Just a thought.

[mulls]

no mulls, you're right.  The Church in this country has done a very bad job of "Preaching Christ and Him Crucified" and speaking courageously about Salvation, Redemption, Holiness, and Heaven and Hell.

I know, becuse my parish, the parents of my teens and the young adults are all a bunch of Casual Christians.  It's a nice thing to do, "be a Christian" but very few of them have become transformed by the Radical call of the Gospel . . . we're the biggest social club in town . . .  but there are efforts to change that.

I preach Christ and his Cross and his Salvation and His Mercy and His Love and his Justice to my teens.  I take this very seriously.  Our new priest does the same (in his very gentle way, gosh I wish I could be more gentle) every Sunday from the pulpit.  The two of us arrived withing 3 months of each other and we've managed to be a sword in this oh so bourgeuois parish . . .

There are many people who are leading the New Evangelization.  And we need more.  We need more people who are going to risk everything, give up all that the world promises and devote themselves to preaching the Gospel tirelessly.  I pray that God will give me the grace to do this as a priest.  I pray that others will join me.  I pray that we will always be faithful to Christ.

We haven't always done the best job, but we're coming a long way.  It is the "Church's" fault that we haven't been more zealous, but the "Church" isn't some big institution . . . its US . . . the People of God . . . all of us together, in our state in life who need to preach Christ and Him Crucified in DEED AND WORD!!

amen

[mulls]

Josh McDowell (non-Catholic Christian) was giving statistics concerning the state of the Christian churches in America. He said that around 50% of Protestants, who claim to be Christian, have not accepted Jesus as their Savior. (Not sure how he got that though)

true or not, i am fine with that statistic.....AS LONG AS the leaders of the churches which these people are attending are doing their job of preaching sin, salvation, and the cross. there will always be unbelievers, no matter how hard we try.

but the important thing is that we do try, especially those who have places of high authority and are supposed to be the ultimate witnesses of Christ.