Timothy Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I can’t believe what I am hearing in this thread. I am amazed to see what strong patriotic ties are held within the hearts of some people here. America is a country that constantly defies the Pope.(which we are currently doing right now by the way). Look at this awful war that is taking place in Iraq? I have yet to see or here of Osama in the past few years. Isn’t that who we were suppose to be after anyways? It almost sounds as if some here enjoy seeing an American flag waving in the background of a Church. What an awful display in my opinion. Please do NOT get all tied up in the patriotic business of one’s country. This place does not belong to the government, but to Christ. I don’t see why we sit here and say that we are lucky to have freedom, because our founding fathers (whom were primarily all freemasons) gave it to us. The government has just given us what Christ gave us from the beginning. I think the saying goes, separate Church and state. Well for me there is only Church! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Mar 29 2005, 07:41 AM'] Freedom is something every generation must earn. If laws and ideas are wrong, work to change them. But don't dishonor the flag of the country that gives you the freedom to work for those changes. That is wrong. [/quote] What are you talking about??? Freedom is something that eveyone must earn?? Wasn't freedom given to us by Christ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 28 2005, 11:35 PM'] How many counties in the US voted for Bush???? Cam [/quote] What I you saying here? I sure didn't vote for the man(a freemason) who defied the Pope when he went into Iraq and slaughtered all those innocent women and children. Did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Timothy' date='Mar 29 2005, 12:21 PM'] What I you saying here? I sure didn't vote for the man(a freemason) who defied the Pope when he went into Iraq and slaughtered all those innocent women and children. Did you? [/quote] I am saying that over 80% of the US counties voted for George W. Bush. Fact. He is certainly a good man and a good President. Sinful and fallen? Sure....but nevertheless a good man. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 29 2005, 12:32 PM'] He is certainly a good man and a good President. Cam [/quote] He is in grate moral sin due to his allegiance to the freemasons. Good President? (Are you familiar with the flawed foundation in which freemasonry was built upon?) Also, he is in direct defiance of the Pope. Good President? When he was governor of Texas he oversaw and approved the most death penalties we have ever seen. Good President? He is responsible for murdering thousands of innocent women and children due to his immoral war. Good President? Not to mention he is running one of the biggest deficits we have ever seen. Good President? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Timothy' date='Mar 29 2005, 12:11 PM']It almost sounds as if some here enjoy seeing an American flag waving in the background of a Church. What an awful display in my opinion. Please do NOT get all tied up in the patriotic business of one’s country. This place does not belong to the government, but to Christ. I don’t see why we sit here and say that we are lucky to have freedom, because our founding fathers (whom were primarily all freemasons) gave it to us. The government has just given us what Christ gave us from the beginning. I think the saying goes, separate Church and state. Well for me there is only Church![/quote] I totally agree, Timothy, and I am flabbergasted to hear this stuff. [i]Regardless[/i] of the goodness/badness of a nation (which we are probably not qualified to judge anyway), our allegiance belongs to God alone. What justification is there for acting otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Mar 28 2005, 04:58 PM'] I dont feel comfortable pledging to a flag that stands for a country that has [i]liberty and justice for [u]some.[/u][/i] [/quote] Exactly. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the Holy See instead. I have a giant vatican flag and I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='MC Just' date='Mar 29 2005, 01:20 PM'] I have a giant vatican flag and I love it. [/quote] I want one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Timothy' date='Mar 29 2005, 01:19 PM'] He is in grate moral sin due to his allegiance to the freemasons. Good President? (Are you familiar with the flawed foundation in which freemasonry was built upon?) Also, he is in direct defiance of the Pope. Good President? When he was governor of Texas he oversaw and approved the most death penalties we have ever seen. Good President? He is responsible for murdering thousands of innocent women and children due to his immoral war. Good President? Not to mention he is running one of the biggest deficits we have ever seen. Good President? [/quote] I wasn't aware that Bush was Catholic. The last time I checked he ascribed to a Wesleyian background. Low Church Episcopalian. We cannot expect one who is not Catholic to ascribe to those things which are Catholic. We can expect him to ascribe to moral agents. However, you understanding of the death penalty is not a good analogy. The Church does not disagree with the concept of the death penalty, just the modern application of it, in most circumstances. As far as the rest, those are simply political disagreements and have nothing to do with the idea that this is a good country. While I have been on record disagreeing with Bush, I do think that as a whole, the country is not what is presented in the media. I will pledge allegiance to the Flag. And yes, Bush is a good President. He is sinful, he is fallen, but he is a good man. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Mar 29 2005, 01:41 PM'] Bush is a good President. He is sinful, he is fallen, but he is a good man. [/quote] I agree, that over all, he is a good man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Mar 29 2005, 01:24 PM'] I want one [/quote] you can get them on e-bay..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnsspivey Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Timothy' date='Mar 29 2005, 12:11 PM'] I can’t believe what I am hearing in this thread. I am amazed to see what strong patriotic ties are held within the hearts of some people here. America is a country that constantly defies the Pope.(which we are currently doing right now by the way). Look at this awful war that is taking place in Iraq? I have yet to see or here of Osama in the past few years. Isn’t that who we were suppose to be after anyways? It almost sounds as if some here enjoy seeing an American flag waving in the background of a Church. What an awful display in my opinion. Please do NOT get all tied up in the patriotic business of one’s country. This place does not belong to the government, but to Christ. I don’t see why we sit here and say that we are lucky to have freedom, because our founding fathers (whom were primarily all freemasons) gave it to us. The government has just given us what Christ gave us from the beginning. I think the saying goes, separate Church and state. Well for me there is only Church! [/quote] 1) Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. 2) No one here seems to be saying that allegiance to country should overrule or even associate with allegiance to religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote name='Timothy' date='Mar 29 2005, 12:16 PM'] Freedom is something that eveyone must earn?? Wasn't freedom given to us by Christ? [/quote] No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 (edited) [quote name='burnsspivey' date='Mar 29 2005, 02:36 PM'] 1) Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. 2) No one here seems to be saying that allegiance to country should overrule or even associate with allegiance to religion. [/quote] I believe that was talking about Taxes. Not pledging allegiance to certain countries or flags. The scriptures also say "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. ...Matthew 6:24 "So the verse on rendering unto caesar has nothing to do with pledging allegiance. Many americans, even catholics in america make the fatal mistake of trying to serve two masters, they end up hating their own church authority and favoring the countries authority. "cough" "cough" liberals. Edited March 29, 2005 by MC Just Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 [quote]Many americans, even catholics in america make the fatal mistake of trying to serve two masters, they end up hating their own church authority and favoring the countries authority. "cough" "cough" liberals.[/quote] Agreed....there is a difference between American Catholics and Catholics in America. Hence, my statement earlier: [quote]While I am the first to say that we should be Catholic first, we are also to be American.[/quote] Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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