Vatican Prevails On The English Missal Translation

[PedroX]

I used to be an addictions counselor, and everytime I'm asked to hold hands during the Lord's Prayer, it takes me back to all the addicts I've loved and worked with. I always want to end with "It works if you work it, keep coming back!!" Just like we did at AA groups

peace..

[foundsheep]

what about putting your hands in a prayer position during the lords prayer?

[Anna]

No problemo! :)

[BLAZEr]

Hand holding . . . bit of a "no no" since it imposes a "private gesture" onto the people around you . . . Hands folded together (see Foundsheeps picture) is perfectly acceptable and in fact it is the constant tradition of the Church at prayer (especially mass) just look at all art for the last 2000 years . . .

Orans? well it's debatable . . . the posture is prescribed throughout the Mass only for the priest (read the sacramentary) . . . so when the people do a posture that the priest does what are we saying? That we're priests? I hope not . . . but if you read any of the documents supporting this posture they tend to suggest that its our role "in our royal priesthood" . . . or some such language . . . and I think it's ideological, an attempt to dismantle the sacramental priesthood . . .

So what do Orthodox Roman Catholic Bishops say? Bruskewitz: No Chaput: Since its not explicitly described what the laity's posture is at the Lord's prayer, you can do what you want individually and the pastor or the parish is not to "force" any particular posture Morlino: no

By the way . . . I can't wait to start saying "And with your Spirit" after "The Lord be with You.". . . every other language already says that, why are English translators so beaver dam arrogant?

Edited November 3, 2003 by BLAZEr

[Guest Legion]

To add my 2 cents in:

Rome does not tell you what not to do during Mass, they tell you what to do. So this idea of "Well, they don't say I can't do it" mentality leads to us having lay people giving homilies, having dances during Mass, applauding during and after Mass, etc.... Just remember that the Mass is to be familiar and recognizable any where you go. I prefere folding my hands and bowing my head.

Totus Tuus

[vianney]

I just had a talk with Bishop Morlino today and yesterday

[cmotherofpirl]

I posted the orans question and recieved this from Deacon Wally.

"Many Catholics are in the habit of holding their hands in

the "Orans" posture during the Lord's prayer along with the

celebrant. Some do this on their own as a private devotional posture

while some congregations make it a general practice for their

communities.

Is this practice permissible under the current rubrics, either as a

private practice not something adopted by a particular parish as a

communal gesture? What is the status of the bishops' proposal to

include this practice as part of the liturgical norms for the US?

No position is prescribed in the present Sacramentary for an

assembly gesture during the Lord's Prayer. While the recently

approved revised Sacramentary does provide for the use of the orans

gesture by members of the assembly during the Lord's Prayer, the

revised Sacramentary may not be used until it has been confirmed by

the Holy See. I might also note that in the course of its discussion

of the this question, the Bishops' Committee on the Liturgy

expressed a strong preference for the orans gesture over the holding

of hands since the focus of the Lord's Prayer is a prayer to the

Father and not primarily an expression of community and fellowship."

Now, if we look at the question, the COMMITTEE wanted the Orans

position to TAKE THE PLACE OF holding hands, so they placed the

question to the bishops as a whole. The bishops voted against

REPLACING holding hands with the Orans position. In so doing, they

were actually stating that there was NO PREFERENCE in the position

of the faithful at Mass during the Lord's Prayer other than standing.

So, the report of the Adoremus people was correct, if incomplete in

its explanation. The Orans position was voted down as a MANDATORY

posture, but was not forbidden by the bishops.