Carnanc Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 [url="http://www.peta.org/feat/easter/"]http://www.peta.org/feat/easter/[/url] How far should corporate farmers should go in treating animals for maximum profit? I'm not sure, when does cruelty to animals in corporate farms cross the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='slywakka250' date='Mar 24 2005, 02:55 PM'] [url="http://www.peta.org/feat/easter/"]http://www.peta.org/feat/easter/[/url] How far should corporate farmers should go in treating animals for maximum profit? I'm not sure, when does cruelty to animals in corporate farms cross the line? [/quote] Should it matter if its devoid of a soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 24 2005, 02:57 PM'] Should it matter if its devoid of a soul? [/quote] Yes because they are still God's creatures and everything was created good. I am not a bleeding heart for them, but we are called to treat everything with respect for all things reveal something about God. Aside from that we are called to be good stewards of the Earth and to care for it and its inhabitants. Also it is an old patristic belief that it is the soul that gives life, so all things that are alive have a soul... Edited March 24, 2005 by Paphnutius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnanc Posted March 24, 2005 Author Share Posted March 24, 2005 true, they don't have a soul so its fine to kill them for useful purposes, but for example during westward expansion in the United States, people shot Buffalo dead out of the train for no reason. That would seem to be unnessesary killing of animals, and would seem to decrease the respect of the dignity of the human person. What I was wondering is to what extent this may be a problem in the framing industry where chicken's beaks are cut off, and the bad conditions of some storehouses for animals are in horrible conditions. how exactly should animals be treated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 24 2005, 02:59 PM'] Yes because they are still God's creatures and everything was created good. I am not a bleeding heart for them, but we are called to treat everything with respect for all things reveal something about God. Aside from that we are called to be good stewards of the Earth and to care for it and its inhabitants. Also it is an old patristic belief that it is the soul that gives life, so all things that are alive have a soul... [/quote] But wasnt the creatures of the earth created for mans benefit? Im for respect and dignity for creatures, but Im not sure how much dignity a slautherhouse can provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='slywakka250' date='Mar 24 2005, 03:05 PM'] true, they don't have a soul so its fine to kill them for useful purposes, [/quote] Ummm....but they do. All things that are living have a soul. Not an immortal soul like ours or the angels, but a mortal soul. Even our soul is different from God's "soul." His is everlasting (meaning it goes on to infinity in both directions), ours has a definite starting spot and will continue without end. Think of God's soul as a a geometric definition of a line, ours is the geometric definition of a ray. I know Melchisadec you have to accept that on faith, but you brought it up soo.... It is the soul that gives life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 (edited) [quote name='slywakka250' date='Mar 24 2005, 03:05 PM'] true, they don't have a soul so its fine to kill them for useful purposes, but for example during westward expansion in the United States, people shot Buffalo dead out of the train for no reason. That would seem to be unnessesary killing of animals, and would seem to decrease the respect of the dignity of the human person. What I was wondering is to what extent this may be a problem in the framing industry where chicken's beaks are cut off, and the bad conditions of some storehouses for animals are in horrible conditions. how exactly should animals be treated? [/quote] Is it the price for an ever expanding population? Im not sure. I like to remain civilized whilst providing food for my fellow man. But if it is deemed by some that an animal has no soul, than whats the difference of destorying a rock and a chicken? The mess? Edited March 24, 2005 by Melchisedec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 24 2005, 03:10 PM'] But wasnt the creatures of the earth created for mans benefit? Im for respect and dignity for creatures, but Im not sure how much dignity a slautherhouse can provide. [/quote] Indeed they were created for our benefit. Our belief is that man is the pinnacle of creation ( I do not want to argue that on this thread), and so all on Earth was created for him. That is just the reason why we must treat them with dignity and respect. I was not making an arguement so much as claryfing the position. I agree a slaughterhouse can be rather undignified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 24 2005, 03:12 PM'] But if it is deemed by some that an animal has no soul, than whats the difference of destorying a rock and a chicken? The mess? [/quote] If you wish to take it that way, then one can rely upon another hierarchy of creation. Obviously a chicken has more reason and cognition than a rock and therefore is higher than a rock and deserves to be treaed differently than a rock. A chicken is closer to a human than a rock and therefore should be treated in a more humane way?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 24 2005, 03:10 PM'] Ummm....but they do. All things that are living have a soul. Not an immortal soul like ours or the angels, but a mortal soul. Even our soul is different from God's "soul." His is everlasting (meaning it goes on to infinity in both directions), ours has a definite starting spot and will continue without end. Think of God's soul as a a geometric definition of a line, ours is the geometric definition of a ray. I know Melchisadec you have to accept that on faith, but you brought it up soo.... It is the soul that gives life. [/quote] I wasn't aware that animals do have souls, but temporary souls. I never new the distinction. I was taught they didnt have souls and wouldn't enter the gates of heaven. I felt sad for my dog whom I adored. But if they do have a temporary soul, is that somewhat still expendable in a certain sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 24 2005, 03:16 PM'] I wasn't aware that animals do have souls, but temporary souls. I never new the distinction. I was taught they didnt have souls and wouldn't enter the gates of heaven. I felt sad for my dog whom I adored. But if they do have a temporary soul, is that somewhat still expendable in a certain sense? [/quote] I would not say expendable for all of creation is precious in God's eyes, but yes there is a since of difference. That does not justify not treating them without the dignity due creation though. "Expendable" or not there is a certain amount of respect that is to be given to all of creation for it is a gift to us. Just for clarification they will not enter the gates of heaven for their souls ceases to exist with their life as far as I know. Ours continues after our death on Earth for we are destined for the ressurection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I prefer to get my pictures framed at local stores, rather than use Wal-mart or any other type of corporate framing. I'm still not sure what frames have to do with animal cruelty. /Spelling Nazi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I thought we ruled out the use of the word 'Nazi' in a humorous context? Anyways, I think Corporate Farming is definately a moral evil. We're called to be stewards of God's creation, and the cruel treatment of animals for profit (not because you can feed more people, just becuase you can make more money) is wrong. I think its flat out stupid to think that cruelty to animals is in any way what God expects of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 One it is absolutley nesscairy to have animals in coporate farming. To release the animals in traditional farming would do much more damage to the enviroment...take a look at the Bird Flu in China. Having said that the animals need to be treated with respect. Just because you have a lot of pigs in a barn does not mean that its an evil operation. I have worked for many years in a hog barn so i am quite framiliar with the operations. Now to Crusader1234's point of killing more animals for profit where we live we actually do not produce enough animals to kill in order to meet the demand. People forget when New York City wakes up in the Morning or Tokyo and they want their ham and sasuage for breakfast the vast amount of numbers needed to produce it. The only way we can take care of the population is to have animals in mass in relativly confined areas as not to spread disease and ensure animal saftety as well as health security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Also besides me does anyone find it offensive that PETA compares a pigs being killed so i can eat my easter ham to the Crucifixion of our blessed Lord...i think that ideology is far more evil then an ideology that places 1000 pigs in a barn to feed 10 000 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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