Liberal Agenda

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='StPiusVPrayForUs' date='Mar 23 2005, 04:58 PM'] [url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm"]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm[/url]

Sums things up pretty well. [/quote]
Theocracy, No thanks. If that ever happens, you can expect very violent oppostion.

[StPiusVPrayForUs]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 23 2005, 05:01 PM'] Theocracy, No thanks. If that ever happens, you can expect very violent oppostion. [/quote]
Well, thankfully you don't speak for the Church.

[track2004]

I think it needs to be noted that "liberal" does not equal "democrat" and that "conservative" does not equal "republican".

I am not a neocon or a right-wing crazy (as I like to call certain extreemists) yet I vote one way or the other depending on who is running and what they are saying. If I ever voted a stright ticket I'd be terribly surprised. Where ever I fall in the political spectrum I think some things the democrats and republicans do are wrong and I think some things they do are right. The same goes for the liberals and the conservatives. To sum it up, just because I consider myself a conservative doesn't mean I loathe democrats or think republicans are the best thing since sliced bread and the Internet.

[curtins]

[quote] That's the biggest load of bull-plop that I've ever seen come pouring from another person's fingers.

Your statement boils down to: liberals=demons, conservatives=angels. How constructive and useful.[/quote]

no its actually just the truth

[MC Just]

Here ya go

[url="http://www.saint-mike.org/library/Liberalism/Liberalism/Liberalism_TOC.html"]http://www.saint-mike.org/library/Liberali...ralism_TOC.html[/url]

"Liberalism of all Shades Condemned by the Church" (Chapter 10)


Liberalism of every degree and all forms has been formally condemned--so much so that outside of the motives of its intrinsic malice, it stands under the formal ban of the Church, which is sufficient for all faithful Catholics. It would be impossible for an error so widespread and so radical to escape condemnation.

Upon its appearance in France at the time of the Revolution [1789-1799], the famous Declaration of the Rights of Man--which contains in germ all the follies of Liberalism--was condemned by Pius VI (1775-1799). Later, the baneful doctrine infected all the countries of Europe. In Spain it first took the name of Liberalism, under which it has since been known everywhere.

Upon the occasion of the appearance of the first errors of De Lamennais, Gregory XVI (1831- 1846), in his encyclical Mirarl Vos, explicitly condemned Liberalism as it was then understood, taught, and practiced by the constitutional governments of Europe. Later on, when the full tide of the deplorable deluge had submerged all Europe, carrying all before it, God raised up to His Church Pius IX (1846-1878), who has justly passed into history as the "Scourge of Liberalism."

Liberal error, under all its forms, shapes, and shades, has been unmasked by this Pope. That his words might carry, as it were, more authority on this question, Providence has willed that these reiterated condemnations of Liberalism should fall from the lips of a Pontiff who, at the beginning of his pontificate, was hailed by Liberalists as their own. But he left no refuge to which their error might have resort. The numerous briefs and allocutions of Plus IX have clearly shown to Christian peoples what this baneful heresy is, and The Syllabus of Errors (1864) has put on the final seal of condemnation. Let us see the principal contents of some of the Pontifical documents. Amongst all that we might place before our readers, we will cite only a few.

On the 18th of June, 1871, responding to a deputation of French Catholics, Pius IX spoke thus:

'Atheism in legislation, indifference in matters of religion, and the pernicious maxims which go under the name of Liberal Catholicism are the true causes of the destruction of states; they have been the ruin of France. Believe me, the evil I denounce is more terrible than the Revolution, more terrible even than The Commune. I have always condemned Liberal Catholicism, and I will condemn it again forty times over if it be necessary."

In a brief, 6th of March, 1873, addressed to the Circle of St. Ambrose of Milan, the Sovereign Pontiff thus expresses himself:

"People are not wanting who pretend to form an alliance between light and darkness and to associate justice with iniquity in favor of those doctrines called Liberal Catholicism, which, based on the most pernicious principles, show themselves favorable to the intrusion of secular power upon the domain of spirituals; they lead their partisans to esteem, or at least to tolerate, iniquitous laws, as if it were not written that no one can serve two masters. Those who thus conduct themselves are more dangerous and more baneful than declared enemies, not only because, without being warned of it, perhaps even without being conscious of it, they second the projects of wicked men, but also because, keeping within certain limits, they show themselves with some appearance of probity and sound doctrine. They thus deceive the indiscreet friends of conciliation and seduce honest people, who would otherwise have strenuously combatted a declared error."

In the Brief of the 8th of May of the same year, speaking to the Confederation of the Catholic Circle of Belgium, the same Holy Father said:

"What we praise above all in your religious enterprise is the absolute aversion which, as we are informed, you show towards the principles of Liberal Catholicism and your intrepid determination to root them out as soon as possible. In truth you will extirpate the fatal root of discord and you will efficaciously contribute to unite and strengthen the minds of all in so combatting this insidious error, much more dangerous than an open enemy because it hides itself under the specious veil of zeal and of charity, and is so endeavoring to protect the people in general from its contaminating influence. Surely you, who adhere with such complete submission to all decisions of this Apostolic Seat and who know its frequent reprobations of Liberal principles, have no need of these warnings."

In the Brief to the La Croix, a Belgium journal, on the 24th of May, 1874, the Pope expresses himself thus:

"We cannot do less than to praise the design expressed in this letter, which we know your journal will satisfactorily fulfill, the design to publish, to spread, to comment on and inculcate in all minds all that the Holy See teaches against the perverse or at least false doctrines professed in so many quarters, and particularly against Liberal Catholicism, bitterly striving to conciliate light with darkness and truth with error."

On the 9th of June, 1873, Pius IX wrote to the president of the Council of the Catholic Association of Orleans, and without mentioning its name, depicts pietistic and moderated Liberalism in the following terms:

"Although you have not, strictly speaking, to combat impiety, are you not perhaps menaced on this side by as great dangers as those of the group of friends deceived by that ambiguous doctrine, which, while rejecting the last consequence of error, obstinately retains the germs, and which, not willing to embrace the truth in its fullness, and not daring to abandon it entirely, exhausts itself in interpreting the traditions and teachings of the Church by running them through the mold of its own private opinions."

In an address to the Bishop of Quimper, and speaking in reference to the general assembly of the Catholic Association of that diocese, the Pope said:

"Assuredly these associations are not wanting in the obedience due to the Church, neither on account of the writings nor the actions of those who pursue them with invectives and abuse; but they might be pushed into the slippery path of error by the force of those opinions called Liberal; opinions accepted by many Catholics who are otherwise honest and pious, and who, even by the very influence which gives them their piety, are easily captivated and induced to profess the most pernicious maxims. Inculcate, therefore, Venerable Brother, in the minds of this Catholic assembly that, when we have so often rebuked the sectaries of these Liberal opinions, we have not had in view the declared enemies of the Church, whom it would have been idle to denounce, but rather that those of whom we are speaking are such as secretly guard the virus of Liberal principles which they have imbibed with their mother's milk. They boldly inoculate this virus into the people's minds, as if it were not impregnated with a manifest malice, and as if it were as harmless to religion as they think. They thus propagate the seed of those troubles which have held the world in revolution so long. Let them avoid these ambuscades. Let them endeavor to direct their blows against this perfidious enemy, and certainly they will merit much from their religion and their country."

With these utterances from the mouth of the Vicar of Jesus Christ our friends as well as our enemies must see that the Pope has said in diverse briefs, and particularly in the last citation, in a general way all that can be said on this question, which we are studying in its details..

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='curtins' date='Mar 23 2005, 10:31 PM']
no its actually just the truth [/quote]
*snerk*

I think you actually believe that. That's just sad.

Good response, though. I can see you very carefully thought it out and decided a point-by-point rebuttal would be best.

[God Conquers]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 22 2005, 03:09 PM'] What is this so-called 'Liberal agenda'. Whats its aim? Who are leading it? Who founded this movement? Whats the movement in oppose to this agenda? [/quote]
Aim: To undermine and attack the dignity of the human being in every way, both subtly and overtly. Methods of this are varied, from the promotion of socialism and communism to abortion and contraception, to materialism and secular humanism.

Who are leading it?: many people, whether they know it or not. Some in small ways, some in large ways. Planned Parenthood, communists, feminists, media which undermines the dignity of women and sexuality ie. Hollywood... the list goes on and on.

Founding Father: Satan

In Opposition: Jesus Christ and those who follow Him.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Mar 24 2005, 11:38 AM'] Aim: To undermine and attack the dignity of the human being in every way, both subtly and overtly. Methods of this are varied, from the promotion of socialism and communism to abortion and contraception, to materialism and secular humanism.

Who are leading it?: many people, whether they know it or not. Some in small ways, some in large ways. Planned Parenthood, communists, feminists, media which undermines the dignity of women and sexuality ie. Hollywood... the list goes on and on.

Founding Father: Satan

In Opposition: Jesus Christ and those who follow Him. [/quote]
That means you cannot be catholic and liberal right?

[Melchisedec]

I think I understand a little bit more about the catholics hatred for liberals. Considering you believe the church to be an infallable authority annointed by god. And the church condemns liberalism at all levels. Then a catholic is taught to despise liberalism as much as they are taught to despise the devil himself.

[Paphnutius]

Just my humble opinon here...

The Church as far as I know it does not condem liberalism on all levels. The Church is very much about human freedom and the right of the human individual. It is simply when the liberal ideals go uncheck and they begin to infringe on that same freedom and rights of others at the expense of one does the Church disagree with it. If we look at the political revolutions of the 18th century we would see some likeness between that liberalism and the Church's stance on things, with the exception of the treatment of women not having equal opportunities. It is not that the Church is strcitly against equality and liberty, it is that it is against such radical notions of the individual being free to do whatever he or she wishes.

I for one do not despise liberalism. I disagree with the extent that it carries some things. If it were kept in more moderation and in check it would be a very beneficial thing.

I do not thinnk that the liberals are out to undermine human dignity as their objective goal. I see what some of the things they are doing as having that effect. They do such things because they are focused too much on the individual and not largely enough on the community as a whole. I could be wrong about my conception of what liberalism is though.

I think it should be restated that liberalism and conservatism are not the same thing as democrat and republican. Just as it is not the same to say that a liberal is unorthodox because he believes in progression. JMHO

[God Conquers]

It's all about how you define liberal...

I mean, are freedom of speech and religion good things? ya

Is freedom of choice concerning abortion? no

And liberalism is not wholly encapsulated in a poltiical party or organization.

It's difficult to define "liberal agenda" as having a solidly defined goal or object, this is true. Yet it is true that it's end result is the degreadation of the human person.

[Paphnutius]

Ok. I just wanted to make sure that we are all on the same page. I do not think it is their agenda to destroy the dignity of human life. It is just that some of their agenda items to the extent that they carry results in it as we have just agreed. I am not sure if you can define "liberalism" in a clear cut sense today. It seems to constantly be changing shape in my head at least.

[Melchisedec]

So when someone says:

"Its those liberals who are doing all of this !@$*#!"

Whom are they referring to? Considering there are muliple definitions of it and levels of perceieved severity.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 24 2005, 03:22 PM'] Ok. I just wanted to make sure that we are all on the same page. I do not think it is their agenda to destroy the dignity of human life. It is just that some of their agenda items to the extent that they carry results in it as we have just agreed. I am not sure if you can define "liberalism" in a clear cut sense today. It seems to constantly be changing shape in my head at least. [/quote]
But I hear it constantly that the liberal elite are trying to take over the media. That they are trying to destroy religion, that they are doing this and that. That its part of the liberal agenda. I hear this constantly. I am wondering to myself, who are these elite peope? What are they trying to do?

[MC Just]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 24 2005, 03:25 PM'] So when someone says:

"Its those liberals who are doing all of this !@$*#!"

Whom are they referring to? Considering there are muliple definitions of it and levels of perceieved severity. [/quote]
We're talking about those who turn themselves into "super popes" Whether they be Catholic liberals or what not.

some liberals just have a messed up state of mind. We are talking about the liberals pushing for the 5 non-negotiables.

The ones who want a gay and woman priesthood, the ones who are trying to do away with the moral teachings of our church.