hecklingsoul Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I think it's interesting because one of the reformist arguments is that the Catholic Church added the 7 books to the Bible at the Council of Trent in 1545. This is a picture of the Catholic Bible, that existed almost a hundred years before the Council took place, with on of the "added" books in it. How'd that happen? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 I have yet to see the truth told about Luther. This hero of the Deformation approved bigamy (in writing) in the case of Philip Hesse; approved polygyny in general, saying he could find no scriptural prohibition against it; desecrated the Bible by removing Old Testament books which didn't agree with his new doctrines; declared that Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation were also not scripture and removed them from the Bible; altered the wording of the Bible in Romans 3:28 and admitted it and defended it; and taught many false doctrines, among them OSAS, Sola Fide, and Sola Scriptura. He was rabidly anti-semetic, and his critics say he furnished the fuel for Hitler's pogrom against Jews. He was a hero to the Nazi's. Was any of this in the movie? All of this (except the Nazi's) can be proven from Luther's own words. Here's one website you can check out, for starters. http://www.humanitas-international.org/sho...luther-jews.htm Luther was a tortured soul, a victim of child abuse. He is to be pitied, but he has done immeasurable harm to Christ's Church. JMJ Jay (Katholikos) what you're saying about him is not very christian. I don't think Jesus would approve. but the, again, if it's what you believe.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 luther believe in the BLessed Mother Mary monica and honored Her....do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecklingsoul Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 what you're saying about him is not very christian. I don't think Jesus would approve. If the statements are true then telling people about them is very Christian. Don't let the whole flock follow a blind shepard off a cliff. Warn them so that they all can be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 How did these get 'put back in' - all bibles contain these books. I don't understand how it was justified that some books that were declared 'not scripture' were removed (the apocrypha according to protestant bibles) and others considered 'not scripture' were allowed to be included. There is no logic to that! It's a long but interesting story, Ellenita. I'll shorten it as much as I can. The Babylonian Captivity occurred in 587 B.C., resulting in the Diaspora -- the deportation and scattering of certain Jews to countries outside of Palestine. These expatriates were forced to live in Greek-speaking lands, and over time they forgot their language and could not read their scriptures. So a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures was made for these Jews, called the Septuagint. It was probably completed c. 130 B.C. So two collections of writings -- one in Hb, the other in Gk -- were in use in Jewish synagogues in Palestine and in the lands of the Diaspora at the time of Christ. Over the course of time, some Hebrew scriptures were lost; they were then available only in Greek translation. The Septuagint also contained two "books" that were written originally in Greek. There was no formal canon (table of contents) of the Jewish scriptures at the time of Christ and the Apostles. After the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., the Palestinian rabbis held a conference at Jamnia. One of the items of concern was the number of Jews who were becoming Christians. The Catholic Church inherited the Greek Septuagint from Jesus and the Apostles. The Septuagint was used by Paul, Luke, and all the Apostles to evangelize the entire Mediterranean world. When quoting the OT, the NT quotes the Gk Septuagint 86% of the time, and the Hb 14%. Clearly, the sacred writers of the NT considered both as scripture. The messianic prophecies of the Septuagint translation were very powerful in making new converts. So the Palestinian rabbis established their canon of scriptures, and one of the criterions was that the writing had to be in Hebrew. This, of course, eliminated all the writings in the Gk Septuagint. The Church is not bound by the decisions of rabbis. Having received the Septuagint from Christ and the Apostles, she went right on using it. The Church had been using the Septuagint since her birth in 33 A.D.; the Palestinian Canon wasn't set by the rabbis until c. 100 A.D. TO BE CONTINUED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 TO BE CONTINUED oh dear..how long is the intermission? :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 what you're saying about him is not very christian. I don't think Jesus would approve. but the, again, if it's what you believe.... Ya know, sometimes, the Truth hurts. Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 oh dear...how long is the intermission? Yes please Katholikos! You do realise that it's nearly 3.30 am here and I can't go to bed until I've heard the rest!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 How did these get 'put back in' - all bibles contain these books. I don't understand how it was justified that some books that were declared 'not scripture' were removed (the apocrypha according to protestant bibles) and others considered 'not scripture' were allowed to be included. There is no logic to that! What the protestants call Apocrypha is not Apocrypha. The oldest form of the OT was the (Greek) Septuagint. 293 BC. Christ and the Apostles used the Septuagint. Anytime you see "Scriptures" mentioned in the NT, it refers to the Septuagint. In 90 AD (57 years after Christ left) the Jews did not like the fact that the Christians used the same Scriptures as they did. So they took books out and created the (Hebrew) Massorah. Remember, this was 57 years after Christ took away Jewish authority and gave it to the Apostles. Every Christian used the Septuagint as their OT until 1613 AD when the kjv was created. The Catholic Church uses the Septuagint as it's OT. If you want to see the true Apocrypha go to http://www.NewAdvent.org/Fathers/ and scroll to the bottom. Also, look up Septuagint and Messorah (Mesora) at www.Britannica.com Luther wanted to take books out of the bible, because he perverted the teachings. God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 luther believe in the BLessed Mother Mary monica and honored Her....do you? Luther was still rather catholic....i mean he couldn't have made a clean break from protestantism wthout still being...let's call it "tainted" by catholicism. He still had some way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 Thank you for your replies. I know Luther is historically inacurate in some ways. But i say it's inspiring, because they (early Protestants) were persecuted and killed for following Jesus, just as the early christians were. And you do have to admit that those early protestants were much closer to Jesus, if you get it, i'm trying to say more CHRISTIAN, then most catholics of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Luther was still rather catholic....i mean he couldn't have made a clean break from protestantism wthout still being...let's call it "tainted" by catholicism. He still had some way to go. monica ...ironmonk was speaking the truth about luther. and if you see luther in any other light, you are mistaken. dont know about ya but sorry! i follow God's agenda...not a man-made one. and thats what luther did. he changed things to fit his agenda. +JMJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Luther was still rather catholic....i mean he couldn't have made a clean break from protestantism wthout still being...let's call it "tainted" by catholicism. He still had some way to go. You say you are trying to be objective and not trying to insult us but at times I have to wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 monica ...ironmonk was speaking the truth about luther. and if you see luther in any other light, you are mistaken. dont know about ya but sorry! i follow God's agenda...not a man-made one. and thats what luther did. he changed things to fit his agenda. +JMJ Then how come that most HISTORY books will confirm what i mentioned above?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Thank you for your replies. I know Luther is historically inacurate in some ways. But i say it's inspiring, because they (early Protestants) were persecuted and killed for following Jesus, just as the early christians were. And you do have to admit that those early protestants were much closer to Jesus, if you get it, i'm trying to say more CHRISTIAN, then most catholics of the time. No they weren't. The early protestants left Christ to follow their sins. It was the civil governments that did the persecution... there were also thousands of Catholics killed. It's time you start listening to both sides, get the facts, and make an educated choice. -ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now