contraception

[toledo_jesus]

burnsspivey has a point about NFP being contraceptive. It seems to me to be awful involved for a singular purpose. Indeed you can argue that abstinence for the express purpose of avoiding pregnancy does have a contraceptive mentality.
Then again, what do I know? I'm not married.

[Guest nateharburg]

People need to understand that contraception is evil not only because it says "NO! Stay OUT of my private life!" to God, but also because many forms of contraception are ABORTIFACIENT! ALL hormonal contraception and ALL IUD's can and do kill children, albeit tiny children, in the ealiest days of their lives! Hormonal birth control factual information can be found here supporting my claim:

[url="http://www.all.org/brthcnt.htm"]http://www.all.org/brthcnt.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.epm.org/articles/26doctor.html"]http://www.epm.org/articles/26doctor.html[/url]

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Mar 25 2005, 12:47 PM'] It's fine to feel that sin is harmful to the individual, but to say that it harms society is preposterous. [/quote]
What else is a society other than a collection of individuals that interact with each other?

Edited March 26, 2005 by Paphnutius

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Mar 25 2005, 04:02 PM'] burnsspivey has a point about NFP being contraceptive. It seems to me to be awful involved for a singular purpose. Indeed you can argue that abstinence for the express purpose of avoiding pregnancy does have a contraceptive mentality.
Then again, what do I know? I'm not married. [/quote]
Thank you.

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 25 2005, 07:24 PM'] What else is a society other than a collection of individuals that interact with each other? [/quote]
Some things that are harmful for certain individuals, such as the death penalty, are felt, by many catholics, as beneficial to society.

[Socrates]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Mar 25 2005, 04:02 PM'] burnsspivey has a point about NFP being contraceptive. It seems to me to be awful involved for a singular purpose. Indeed you can argue that abstinence for the express purpose of avoiding pregnancy does have a contraceptive mentality.
Then again, what do I know? I'm not married. [/quote]
Abstinence by definition is not contraception.

Contraception involves performing the sexual act while doing something deliberately to render the act infertile.

Abstinence involves not having sex. This is an important moral difference which the Catholic Church has constently recognized and taught.

[Carrie]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Mar 25 2005, 02:59 PM'] Burn, disregard your friend who told you marriage is about pleasure as well as procreation and unity. Pleasure is derived from the sexual act, but never is a purpose for the sexual act. This is lust, and as Catholics we are told to turn away from lustful desires.

I am not saying that the pleasure derived from the sexual act is to be frowned upon, but it cannot be the purpose of the sexual act. Even if the lovers are inflamed with mpasisono, once they remove the procreative and unifying effects of sex then it becomes nothing but lust. The passion then becomes disordered and not loving, but selfish.

God bless,
Mikey [/quote]
She didn't say the [b]purpose[/b] of the sexual act is solely pleasure. Obviously, procreation is the main objective [b]but[/b] it is a husband and a wife's duty to pleasure each other.

*warning* Graphic nature to follow *warning*

This is why a man is allowed to bring his wife to climax either before or after intercourse if she is not able to climax during intercourse. If pleasure played no part in the sexual act, then this would not be allowed, but it is.

Pick up Theology of the Body or Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. It will teach you quite a bit.

[burnsspivey]

[url="http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=contraceptive"]Contraceptive[/url]
Main Entry: con·tra·cep·tion
Pronunciation: "kän-tr&-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: contra- + conception
[b]: deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation[/b]
- con·tra·cep·tive /-'sep-tiv/ adjective or noun

Thus, any act that prevents conception is contraceptive. Thus abstinence and NFP are contraceptive.

[Socrates]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Mar 28 2005, 03:53 PM'] [url="http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=contraceptive"]Contraceptive[/url]
Main Entry: con·tra·cep·tion
Pronunciation: "kän-tr&-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: contra- + conception
[b]: deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation[/b]
- con·tra·cep·tive /-'sep-tiv/ adjective or noun

Thus, any act that prevents conception is contraceptive. Thus abstinence and NFP are contraceptive. [/quote]
Abstinence is not an act. It is not performing an act, abstaining from an act.

If any abstaining from sex was defined as contraception, then any people not having sex (including celibate nuns) would be practicing contraception. That would be absurd.

[Fidei Defensor]

All I can say is read the Book "Good News about Sex and Marriage, Answers to your honest questions about Catholic Teaching" by Christopher West. Its a great book and explains well about this.

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Mar 25 2005, 04:02 PM'] burnsspivey has a point about NFP being contraceptive. It seems to me to be awful involved for a singular purpose. Indeed you can argue that [b]abstinence for the express purpose of avoiding pregnancy[/b] does have a contraceptive mentality.
Then again, what do I know? I'm not married. [/quote]
[i]emphasis added[/i]

[Socrates]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Mar 29 2005, 02:38 PM'] [i]emphasis added[/i] [/quote]
I disagree with Toledo Jesus.

[Q the Ninja]

[quote]It requires action -- NFP is action. NFP is contraceptive. Abstinance is not just 'not having sex' it's also the choice to not have sex. That choice is contraceptive.[/quote]

I wish I had my tract on this, but I don't right now. That's okay.

NFP is not contraceptive, if used for the right reasons. NFP must only be used in a state of necessity, and one must look at it as a way of working with nature, with the cycle of the woman, rather than against nature. Also, you cannot just deny the good of kids, but be open to life were it to happen.

[InCircles]

"We dont need to be satisfied with the taste of a food to have it sustain our body. Sex is no different"

I recommend "Theology of the Body Explained" because a lot of what is being talked about here is covered in that book...it will blow you away. comparing sex with food shows a complete miss understanding of what God intended Marriage to be. please read "Theology of the Body Explained"!!! Sex is on a higher level then what are society makes it out to be. In "Theology of the Body Explained" i read that if you wanted to find out what was most sacred just look at what the devil is trying to desecrate the most...and i agree with the book that the union between a man and a woman is one of the many things being desecrated. pornography is the perfect example of what im talking about.. Thats all i have to say i'll do some more reading a soon as i find my book and more then likely post more here in the future, but i STRONGLY recommend THEOLOGY OF THE BODY EXPLAINED!!!!

Love the Immaculata

[Semalsia]

[quote name='Burnsspivey']A man has a duty to please his wife just as a woman has a duty to please her husband.[/quote]

Duty? What duty? What are you talking about? Sex should never be something you [i]have to[/i] do. If someone doesn't want have sex, then that decision should be respected. Sex isn't a required part of marriage or any other relationship.