Didacus Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I love Saint Augustine! And purgatory is necessary for most of us, specially me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 [quote name='Didacus' post='1725309' date='Dec 11 2008, 10:58 AM']I love Saint Augustine! And purgatory is necessary for most of us, specially me. [/quote] But the problem here is....Did Augustine see The light of God himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 [quote name='reyb' post='1726658' date='Dec 12 2008, 05:30 PM']But the problem here is....Did Augustine see The light of God himself?[/quote] Some ofus I do believe, and correct me if I am wrong, do attain a state of holiness in this life, and thus in a sense - yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 (edited) [indent]I think you do not get it. I mean, Do you think your St. Augustine see Christ himself ?(like Apostle Paul)? [/indent] Edited December 13, 2008 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 [quote name='reyb' post='1726935' date='Dec 13 2008, 03:16 AM'][indent]I think you do not get it. I mean, Do you think your St. Augustine see Christ himself ?(like Apostle Paul)? [/indent][/quote] Well then what do you mean precisely? Do you mean he thinks of himself as Christ, or partof the body of Christ? whatis your interpretatino of Paul? Give me a little more to go on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 [quote name='Didacus' post='1726997' date='Dec 13 2008, 11:00 AM']Well then what do you mean precisely? Do you mean he thinks of himself as Christ, or partof the body of Christ? whatis your interpretatino of Paul? Give me a little more to go on here.[/quote] [indent]Apostle Paul ask in 1 Cor 9:1 Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? NIV[/indent] [indent]Of couse, my answer to this question is Yes. Because it is written in Acts 9:3-6 [color="#FF0000"]As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6 "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."[/color]NIV[/indent] [indent]Now my question is --Did your Saint Augustine see Jesus Christ?[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 In the sense of a 'vision' no. I read Augustine's Confession and in there he describes his conversion. It was not as 'dramatic' as Paul's conversion, but a conversion none the less. In the sense of a vision, Augustine did not 'see' the Lord, but in his conversion, Augustine did at the very least, see the Lord's grace and accepted it with holiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 [quote name='Didacus' post='1727033' date='Dec 13 2008, 02:03 PM']In the sense of a 'vision' no. I read Augustine's Confession and in there he describes his conversion. It was not as 'dramatic' as Paul's conversion, but a conversion none the less. In the sense of a vision, Augustine did not 'see' the Lord, but in his conversion, Augustine did at the very least, see the Lord's grace and accepted it with holiness.[/quote] [indent]That is the problem I am saying. Why should I believe Augustine on matter of Spirituality if he himself is not a true witness of Jesus Christ?[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Do you believe other Christians who haven't seen Christ in a vision as Saint Paul did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1727079' date='Dec 13 2008, 02:55 PM']Do you believe other Christians who haven't seen Christ in a vision as Saint Paul did?[/quote] [indent]To believe about what? Tell me what is it and I will tell you if I will believe them[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 The way I'm reading your posts, you say you do not believe Augustine's teachings because he didn't *see* the Lord in a vision like Paul did. So, does this mean you don't "trust" (I can't find a better word here) people who teach about faith who haven't seen Jesus? Again, this is just how I'm interpreting your posts. Sorry if I make no sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1727089' date='Dec 13 2008, 03:12 PM']The way I'm reading your posts, you say you do not believe Augustine's teachings because he didn't *see* the Lord in a vision like Paul did. So, does this mean you don't "trust" (I can't find a better word here) people who teach about faith who haven't seen Jesus? Again, this is just how I'm interpreting your posts. Sorry if I make no sense! [/quote] [indent]yes. You are correct. [/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 [quote name='Didacus' post='1727033' date='Dec 13 2008, 02:03 PM']In the sense of a 'vision' no. I read Augustine's Confession and in there he describes his conversion. It was not as 'dramatic' as Paul's conversion, but a conversion none the less. In the sense of a vision, Augustine did not 'see' the Lord, but in his conversion, Augustine did at the very least, see the Lord's grace and accepted it with holiness.[/quote] [indent]In what way he see the grace of Christ. Can I have his letters or writings regarding this grace he is saying?[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 [quote name='reyb' post='1727286' date='Dec 13 2008, 08:06 PM'][indent]yes. You are correct. [/indent][/quote] I find this confusing. Not everyone who is saved has visions or hears voices. Do you believe that these people aren't truly saved? (I am talking about both Catholics and Protestants.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1727315' date='Dec 13 2008, 08:35 PM']I find this confusing. Not everyone who is saved has visions or hears voices. Do you believe that these people aren't truly saved? (I am talking about both Catholics and Protestants.)[/quote] [indent]One thing is sure, only true witnessess has the assurance of salvation though they are still here on earth. Now, if you are asking me about Augustine, it seems he did not get it. Otherwise, he will not believe in the doctrine of Purgatory. [/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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