All-male Priesthood

[Monica]

Something that really strikes me, being a woman, is that the Catholic Church has an all-male priesthood.

That's just plain wrong, can't you see that? (again, don't mean to offend).

Only men can be priests and only a man can be a pope.

So only men can serve god and all women are good for is to serve men?? Because they're inferior??

This is so sexist!! How can good-hearted people like you believe in something like this?? How can so many women believe in soemthing like this??

P.S. Remember I'm Protestant and trying to learn, not offend. Go to the "hey i'm new" thread in Open Mic for more info ;)

[dUSt]

So only men can serve god and all women are good for is to serve men?? Because they're inferior??

This is so sexist!! How can good-hearted people like you believe in something like this?? How can so many women believe in soemthing like this??

If this is what we believed, I agree that it would be sexist.

But it's not what we believe. Men and women are totally equal--but obviously, we're very different. Men and women are different because that's the way God created us. There's nothing sexist about that.

Men can't have babies.

Woman can't go to the bathroom standing up. haha

Please don't believe that we think women are inferior to men. What other religion honors their woman more than Catholics? I think if you looked at the Catholic Church's role in the liberation of women throughout history, you'd be very suprised.

God bless.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Monica, there are many MANY ways in which women can serve the Church. We don't NEED to be priests. Most of us don't want to be priests. Its not sexist at all. Its 100% Biblical, in fact!

We DO NOT believe women are inferior. In a sense, if you claimed that women were inferior because we cannot be priests, so also could you claim that men are inferior because they can't have children. Please undertand that I'm not in any way saying that women are only called to be mothers, I was just using that as an example.

We have had a couple threads in the past on why women should not and cannot be priests, and I'm sure some others will come up with some more information for you. I'll also look and see what sources I can find. :)

[BLAZEr]

This is not, I REPEAT NOT, where the Catholic teaching on an all male priesthood comes from, but I'm wondering Monica, as a Protestant, what do you do with

1 Corinthians 14:33-39

[Jake Huether]

What dUSt and Ice said is true,

But then to strike at the heart of the problem:

Christ, OUR SAVIOR, was a man! Not a woman. And he picked men to perform the specific duty of service to the Church in his "persona" . In other words, Christ chose males to perform the specific roll of portraying HIM to us, because no other gender (there's only two) could reflect HIM more than that of a male. When a Priest says Mass, he is standing in the place of Christ. A woman can't do that because Christ was a man.

It shouldn't be a jealousy thing, Monica. Look at it this way. Priests are the servants! They are there to serve EVEN women!

I hope someone tutes in with some more theoretical / Biblical backing.

I'm late for a date with my wife!

Have a great weekend if I don't see ya'll.

[Dave]

In regard to Jesus choosing only male apostles, perhaps Monica may claim that Jesus did it simply because women didn't have authority back then. However, Jesus broke other social rules! Why not that one? As the other posters in this thread have indicated, it had to be something more.

Also, if Jesus did allow Himself to be bound by such social rules, He'd have been guilty of the sin of sexism. Well, we know He never sinned!

[traichuoi]

In order to understand the priesthood, you need to understand the role of the priest and the role of the Church. We, as Catholics, believe that the Church is the bride of Christ. We are the Church and as the bride, we receive Jesus Christ (who gives Himself to us) just like a woman receives her husband (who gives himself to his wife...i.e., marital intercourse...the man gives and the woman receives obviously). We also believe that when a man is ordained a priest and he administers the sacraments, the priest is standing in the place of Christ. Thus, we also believe that priests are the spouse of the Church (the Bride). So, if each role were to be fulfilled fully, the role of Priest standing in place of Christ, and the role of Church as the bride, the Church is able to receive Christ as her spouse.

Ultimately, if the priest were a woman, she would not be able to be a spouse of the Bride...she can not stand in the place of Christ. It is not about whether or not the Church allows women to be priests, it is the mere fact that it is impossible. Even if the Pope wanted women to be priests (which i highly doubt), he does not have the ability to give women the ability to be brides of the Church (the bride). I hope this makes sense. If not, I suggest reading books such as "the Lamb's Supper," or "Father Who Keeps His Promise" and it'll make more sense.

This whole issue goes deeper than why the Church doesn't allow it...ultimately, it is not possible in the vocation of woman or femininity.

I also suggest you taking a closer look at how we value the dignity of woman...especially Mary our Mother. Women are regarded as gifts to where it is the husband's job to love her as Christ loves the Church.

hope it helps...great question though

[cmotherofpirl]

Women in the Priesthood

Gen. 3:15; Luke 1:26-55; John 19:26; Rev. 12:1- Mary is God's greatest creation, was the closest person to Jesus, and yet Jesus did not choose her to become a priest.

Mark 16:9; Luke 7: 37-50; John 8:3-11 - Jesus allowed women to uniquely join in His mission, exalting them above cultural norms. His decision not to ordain women had nothing to due with culture. The Gospel writers are also clear that women participated in Jesus' ministry and, unlike men, never betrayed Jesus. Women have always been held with the highest regard in the Church (e.g., the Church's greatest saint and model of faith is a woman; the Church's constant teaching on the dignity of motherhood; the Church's understanding of humanity as being the Bride united to Christ, etc.).

Mark 14:17,20; Luke 22:14 - the language "the twelve" and "apostles" shows Jesus commissioned the Eucharistic priesthood by giving holy orders only to men.

Gen. 14:10; Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17 - Jesus, the Son of God, is both priest and King after the priest-king Melchizedek. Jesus' priesthood embodies both Kingship and Sonship.

Gen. 22:9-13 - as foreshadowed, God chose our redemption to be secured by the sacrificial love that the Son gives to the Father.

Matt. 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19 - because the priest acts in persona Christi in the offering to the Father, the priest cannot be a woman.

Mark 3:13 - Jesus selected the apostles "as He desired," according to His will, and not according to the demands of His culture. Because Jesus acted according to His will which was perfectly united to that of the Father, one cannot criticize Jesus' selection of men to be His priests without criticizing God.

John 20:22 - Jesus only breathed on the male apostles, the first bishops, giving them the authority to forgive and retain sins. In fact, the male priesthood of Christianity was a distinction from the priestesses of paganism that existed during these times. A female priesthood would be a reversion to non-Christian practices. The sacred tradition of male priesthood has existed uncompromised in the Church for over 2,000 years.

1 Cor. 14:34-35 - Paul says a woman is not permitted to preach the word of God in the Church. It has always been the tradition of the Church for the priest or deacon alone (an ordained male) to read and preach the Gospel.

1 Tim. 2:12 - Paul also says that a woman is not permitted to hold teaching authority in the Church.

Rom. 16:1-2 - while many Protestants point to this verse denounce the Church's tradition of a male priesthood, deaconesses, like Phoebe, were helpers to the priests (for example, preparing women for naked baptism so as to prevent scandal). But these helpers were never ordained.

Luke 2:36-37 - prophetesses, like Anna, were women who consecrated themselves to religious life, but were not ordained.

[jmjtina]

No where in history is there evidence that even indicates that women have ever been ordained to the priesthood. Is this a historical accident? Is the church's practice culturally determined and therefore open to change as human culture changes? Or does the church's practice reflect the normative will of Christ?

Because ordination is a sacrament, the origin and nature of the seven sacraments are also at issue here. The church believes that the sacraments have thier origin in Christ, that he institued them. If this is the case, to what extent is the church able to modify sacramental practice?

While the church can determine for example that lay persons may distribute the Eucharist, the church cannot determine that the matter of the Eucharsit can be rice and tea rather than bread and wine.

The real issue: Is the practice of not ordaining women one of those things which the church can change, or is it something which is inherent in the substance of the sacrament of orders and therefore not subject ot church determination? The consensus of the church has always been that this is NOT something open to change.

Christian faith and ritual practice are founded in the events of the life of a man who lived and taught in the cultural context of first century Palestine. This is why we use bread and wine, instead of rice and tea, to recall Christ's last supper with his apostles. This is why we use oil, instead of iodine, to express Christ's healing and strengthening of the sick. And this is why priests, who represent the historical jesus in a particular way, are male, not female. The church is not free to change the substance of the sacraments because the sacraments reflect the historical reality of jesus and the church cannot change that reality.

Remember, it is not some arbitrary decision on the part of sexist church leaders who could easily do things differently if they chose. Rather we are dealing with the church's concientious attempt to be faithful to the teaching and will of Christ.

[jmjtina]

Our current Pope also states that the church has no authority to change what Christ taught.

Further, in 1994 Pope John Paul II formally declared that the Church does not have the power to ordain women. He stated, "Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force. Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Luke 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful" (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis 4).

traichuoi, said it good. Look at the Blessed Mother! She is the mother of God! That doesn't mean she's inferior, but women and men have thier roles. It's about what is "different" rather than "superiour" and "inferior". Both men and women are gifts. We cannot afford to undervalue either.

B)

Edited November 1, 2003 by jmjtina

[musturde]

Doesn't the Orthodox Church have the same thing though? (with the males only for priests)

[Norseman82]

Hi Monica,

What church are you going to now, and do they have female pastors?

[Norseman82]

On a humorous note.....

The Irish comedian Dave Allen did a skit on what would happen if there were women priests. He showed a woman going to a woman priest for confession, and all the two of them did was gossip forever while the line waiting for confession was almost out the door!!

(Apologies if it sounds sexist, but it was funny!)

[Cure of Ars]

The problem is that you do not understand what a priest is. A Catholoic priest by definition is a spiritual father. To say that women should be priest is like saying women should be fathers. It doesn’t make sense.

Edited November 1, 2003 by Cure of Ars

[Mary's Knight, La]

to sum it all up and save you some eye strain from the longer posts it boils down to a few key points

Christ came to serve the church

Husbands are called to serve their brides in the same way

therefore it is not that only men can be priests but that priests must be men in the same sense that husbands are men because the role of service that is required of those standing in the person of Christ acting on His behalf is a role that is designed for men